Non Fault MUST be labelled as Fault
Discussion
About a month ago I had a Non Fault accident as a named driver on my GFs car (someone ran into the back of us).
Third party immediately admitted liability, their insurers immediately admitted liability over text message and left multiple voicemails confirming this.
RIghtly or wrongly we claimed through our own insurers and provided crystal clear dashcam evidence showing this as non fault.
I've since been marked down as having an AT FAULT claim against me along with the resulting increased cost of my motorcycle insurance renewal which happened shortly after.
The car was fully repaired and back with us within approximately two weeks and the hire car (standard Corsa) was used for just under a week.
Throughout all of this I was given the line about it being "standard procedure" and "yes, we're legally required to log it as such" but wouldn't go any further on that.
Having worked in customer services in the financial sector years ago this sounded very much like it was made up - the legal part.
What I would like to know is that is this actually true?
Are the insurers legally FORCED to log this as AT FAULT until the "costs are recovered"?
Or, is it merely them running their usual racket and not taking individual cases into account?
I know full well that this SHOULD be changing to NON FAULT once the "costs are recovered" but was also told this can take 6 months. So I would be paying considerably higher costs had multiple policies renewed in that time.
Third party immediately admitted liability, their insurers immediately admitted liability over text message and left multiple voicemails confirming this.
RIghtly or wrongly we claimed through our own insurers and provided crystal clear dashcam evidence showing this as non fault.
I've since been marked down as having an AT FAULT claim against me along with the resulting increased cost of my motorcycle insurance renewal which happened shortly after.
The car was fully repaired and back with us within approximately two weeks and the hire car (standard Corsa) was used for just under a week.
Throughout all of this I was given the line about it being "standard procedure" and "yes, we're legally required to log it as such" but wouldn't go any further on that.
Having worked in customer services in the financial sector years ago this sounded very much like it was made up - the legal part.
What I would like to know is that is this actually true?
Are the insurers legally FORCED to log this as AT FAULT until the "costs are recovered"?
Or, is it merely them running their usual racket and not taking individual cases into account?
I know full well that this SHOULD be changing to NON FAULT once the "costs are recovered" but was also told this can take 6 months. So I would be paying considerably higher costs had multiple policies renewed in that time.
Ask your car/bike insurer what the premiums would be WITHOUT the fault claim, and then add that extra cost to the uninsured losses claim against the 3rd party.
I really hope it is sorted in 6 months, but if there's anything contentious in the claim be prepared for a much longer wait (over 18 months in my case).
I really hope it is sorted in 6 months, but if there's anything contentious in the claim be prepared for a much longer wait (over 18 months in my case).
Fault doesn't mean at fault, it means money has been paid out or might be paid out, and is yet to be fully recovered.
Non fault doesn't mean that either, it just means it didn't cost them anything.
At the moment, you have had a fault accident. It'll hopefully turn into a non fault accident when the tp insurers reimburse your insurers for their outlay.
Non fault doesn't mean that either, it just means it didn't cost them anything.
At the moment, you have had a fault accident. It'll hopefully turn into a non fault accident when the tp insurers reimburse your insurers for their outlay.
Biker9090 said:
About a month ago I had a Non Fault accident as a named driver on my GFs car (someone ran into the back of us).
Third party immediately admitted liability, their insurers immediately admitted liability over text message and left multiple voicemails confirming this.
RIghtly or wrongly we claimed through our own insurers and provided crystal clear dashcam evidence showing this as non fault.
I've since been marked down as having an AT FAULT claim against me along with the resulting increased cost of my motorcycle insurance renewal which happened shortly after.
The car was fully repaired and back with us within approximately two weeks and the hire car (standard Corsa) was used for just under a week.
Throughout all of this I was given the line about it being "standard procedure" and "yes, we're legally required to log it as such" but wouldn't go any further on that.
Having worked in customer services in the financial sector years ago this sounded very much like it was made up - the legal part.
What I would like to know is that is this actually true?
Are the insurers legally FORCED to log this as AT FAULT until the "costs are recovered"?
Or, is it merely them running their usual racket and not taking individual cases into account?
I know full well that this SHOULD be changing to NON FAULT once the "costs are recovered" but was also told this can take 6 months. So I would be paying considerably higher costs had multiple policies renewed in that time.
This is what happens:Third party immediately admitted liability, their insurers immediately admitted liability over text message and left multiple voicemails confirming this.
RIghtly or wrongly we claimed through our own insurers and provided crystal clear dashcam evidence showing this as non fault.
I've since been marked down as having an AT FAULT claim against me along with the resulting increased cost of my motorcycle insurance renewal which happened shortly after.
The car was fully repaired and back with us within approximately two weeks and the hire car (standard Corsa) was used for just under a week.
Throughout all of this I was given the line about it being "standard procedure" and "yes, we're legally required to log it as such" but wouldn't go any further on that.
Having worked in customer services in the financial sector years ago this sounded very much like it was made up - the legal part.
What I would like to know is that is this actually true?
Are the insurers legally FORCED to log this as AT FAULT until the "costs are recovered"?
Or, is it merely them running their usual racket and not taking individual cases into account?
I know full well that this SHOULD be changing to NON FAULT once the "costs are recovered" but was also told this can take 6 months. So I would be paying considerably higher costs had multiple policies renewed in that time.
You have an insurance policy on your car, it has been damaged so you have claimed on that policy (who is at fault is Irrelevant).
Your insurers have met there legal obligation to you, to pay for the repairs to your car.
That is it ,your insurers have met all their obligations to you.
You have to pay any excess you agreed to.
You will most probably see an increase in your premiums in future because you have made a claim on YOUR insurance.
If your insurer wants to claim the money back from a third party due to them being negligent then they can do so if they wish, they normally do because they want the money back, they can also claim any excess you had to pay out for you. But they do not have to.
The words that have been used like "Fault claim" and "Non Fault claim" are misleading because all that counts is, did your insurer recover the money they paid out on YOUR claim.
You could have claimed from the third party and his insurers if you had wished to do so and things would be different.
Biker9090 said:
Are the insurers legally FORCED to log this as AT FAULT until the "costs are recovered"?
Legally, probably no, but in my experience, they will effectively treat it as a fault claim until fully resolved, however (again in my experience), they are not unreasonable about refunding any uplift in premium as a result of this once the dust settles.Biker9090 said:
I know full well that this SHOULD be changing to NON FAULT once the "costs are recovered" but was also told this can take 6 months. So I would be paying considerably higher costs had multiple policies renewed in that time.
You should get the difference back once the claim is settled.I am still going through this nonsense almost 2 & a half years after writing off a car. Entire claim is less that £4.5k - I'm expecting 50:50 in the best case scenario, but in the meantime I have been deemed 'at fault' & my premiums for both motorcycle & bike insurance are around £350 each; I was hoping to pay less than £300 for each....
The insurer's solicitors apparently went into administration last year so they have appointed a new lot - this seems to have held up the process for all parties concerned. Seems ridiculous for such a small claim.
The insurer's solicitors apparently went into administration last year so they have appointed a new lot - this seems to have held up the process for all parties concerned. Seems ridiculous for such a small claim.
Biker 1 said:
I am still going through this nonsense almost 2 & a half years after writing off a car. Entire claim is less that £4.5k - I'm expecting 50:50 in the best case scenario, but in the meantime I have been deemed 'at fault' & my premiums for both motorcycle & bike insurance are around £350 each; I was hoping to pay less than £300 for each....
The insurer's solicitors apparently went into administration last year so they have appointed a new lot - this seems to have held up the process for all parties concerned. Seems ridiculous for such a small claim.
If you end up 50:50 your premiums won't change anyway so may as well move on and forget about it The insurer's solicitors apparently went into administration last year so they have appointed a new lot - this seems to have held up the process for all parties concerned. Seems ridiculous for such a small claim.
I had this about ten years ago. I was hit from behind by a young lad in a s
tty Micra. When we exchanged details, he was pleasant enough, and told me he used to work at a takeaway near me. He said he had his own place now, and wrote his details on a menu.
I got a call that night from a bloke saying he was his uncle, asking to settle it privately. I told him it was a company car and I had to do everything via the lease firm.
I then got a call from the lad. He had been pulled for driving without insurance. I never got the full story, but I gather 'his' place was his uncle's in reality. I was given a couple of stories later; one was the uncle took out the policy and cancelled it, and the other was the lad was not named on the policy.
He was stting it, and thought the accident is not going to help his court hearing, so he offered to pay himself.
Meanwhile, my employer took £250 out of my salary payment to cover the excess. I was pretty pissed-off, as I had to use their AMC, who took months to invoice the other driver.
Eventually they sent it out, he paid up, and I got an email saying it was all settled and my £250 would be reimbursed in the next salary payment.
I then went to insure my own car. I was asked about accident history, so I told them I had a non-fault accident and it was settled.
When my documents came back, they showed the accident as 'at fault'. I told the broker, provided copies of emails, but they said they could not update the records on the Claims Underwriting Exchange database, and I would have to get the company insurer to do it.
I rang their AMC, and they said they had done it. Checked with my broker, and no change. After much fannying about, I discovered the AMC only sent an invoice for the uninsured losses. The insurer had invoiced him separately and he had not paid that. They were not being particularly proactive in chasing him, so I contacted him myself. He paid the next day and the insurer promptly updated the record.
tty Micra. When we exchanged details, he was pleasant enough, and told me he used to work at a takeaway near me. He said he had his own place now, and wrote his details on a menu.I got a call that night from a bloke saying he was his uncle, asking to settle it privately. I told him it was a company car and I had to do everything via the lease firm.
I then got a call from the lad. He had been pulled for driving without insurance. I never got the full story, but I gather 'his' place was his uncle's in reality. I was given a couple of stories later; one was the uncle took out the policy and cancelled it, and the other was the lad was not named on the policy.
He was s
tting it, and thought the accident is not going to help his court hearing, so he offered to pay himself.Meanwhile, my employer took £250 out of my salary payment to cover the excess. I was pretty pissed-off, as I had to use their AMC, who took months to invoice the other driver.
Eventually they sent it out, he paid up, and I got an email saying it was all settled and my £250 would be reimbursed in the next salary payment.
I then went to insure my own car. I was asked about accident history, so I told them I had a non-fault accident and it was settled.
When my documents came back, they showed the accident as 'at fault'. I told the broker, provided copies of emails, but they said they could not update the records on the Claims Underwriting Exchange database, and I would have to get the company insurer to do it.
I rang their AMC, and they said they had done it. Checked with my broker, and no change. After much fannying about, I discovered the AMC only sent an invoice for the uninsured losses. The insurer had invoiced him separately and he had not paid that. They were not being particularly proactive in chasing him, so I contacted him myself. He paid the next day and the insurer promptly updated the record.
I have come to the conclusion that Insurance companies are out to get you for any and every penny they can. I always knew they would be out to make a profit but things have gone way past anything reasonable.
Two observations I would make regarding the OP’s situation.
1. A fault claim or a no fault claim makes only a limited difference. Your premiums will increase because you have made a claim.
2. The OP made the claim as a named driver on their OH’s policy which means that for the next 5 years the OH must also declare that they have made a claim and therefore their premium will also increase. I know, I’ve just gone through this exact process with my wife making a claim as a named driver on my policy.
Ridiculous, illogical and totally unreasonable but that’s what will happen.
Two observations I would make regarding the OP’s situation.
1. A fault claim or a no fault claim makes only a limited difference. Your premiums will increase because you have made a claim.
2. The OP made the claim as a named driver on their OH’s policy which means that for the next 5 years the OH must also declare that they have made a claim and therefore their premium will also increase. I know, I’ve just gone through this exact process with my wife making a claim as a named driver on my policy.
Ridiculous, illogical and totally unreasonable but that’s what will happen.
Yep.
We had something hit the car last year that fell off the back of a lorry.
Also had dashcam footage and it’s clear what happened.
Insurance due January, Had to declare it as fault as it s not settled.
Wife s insurance was end of Feb and yep named driver on that so had to declare it as fault.
So i m down on excess and the cost of insurance on 2 cars. Solicitors said unlikely your premium would reduce and they pay the money back but you never know.
But 8 months on and we are still waiting.
I did put the accident as non fault but when the insurance renewal got to the insurer they said this wasn’t correct so from £300 to £691 per annum it jumped.
We had something hit the car last year that fell off the back of a lorry.
Also had dashcam footage and it’s clear what happened.
Insurance due January, Had to declare it as fault as it s not settled.
Wife s insurance was end of Feb and yep named driver on that so had to declare it as fault.
So i m down on excess and the cost of insurance on 2 cars. Solicitors said unlikely your premium would reduce and they pay the money back but you never know.
But 8 months on and we are still waiting.
I did put the accident as non fault but when the insurance renewal got to the insurer they said this wasn’t correct so from £300 to £691 per annum it jumped.
Edited by Downward on Wednesday 22 July 16:10
Downward said:
Yep.
We had something hit the car last year that fell off the back of a lorry.
Also had dashcam footage and it s clear what happened.
Insurance due January, Had to declare it as fault as it s not settled.
Wife s insurance was end of Feb and yep named driver on that so had to declare it as fault.
So i m down on excess and the cost of insurance on 2 cars. Solicitors said unlikely your premium would reduce and they pay the money back but you never know.
But 8 months on and we are still waiting.
I did put the accident as non fault but when the insurance renewal got to the insurer they said this wasn t correct so from £300 to £691 per annum it jumped.
I’m thinking of writing to my MP about the situation. Doubt much will come of it but don’t know of another way to do something. My MP’s Kemi Badenoch so you never know; she’s quite keen to please at the moment…..We had something hit the car last year that fell off the back of a lorry.
Also had dashcam footage and it s clear what happened.
Insurance due January, Had to declare it as fault as it s not settled.
Wife s insurance was end of Feb and yep named driver on that so had to declare it as fault.
So i m down on excess and the cost of insurance on 2 cars. Solicitors said unlikely your premium would reduce and they pay the money back but you never know.
But 8 months on and we are still waiting.
I did put the accident as non fault but when the insurance renewal got to the insurer they said this wasn t correct so from £300 to £691 per annum it jumped.
Edited by Downward on Wednesday 22 July 16:10
I had a claim made against me ~2 weeks before my renewal 
Long story short someone wrote down an N instead of an M for the reg.
Mine being a red Octavia and not a grey Astra!
I had to do all the donkey work trying to prove my innocence.
I went with a specialist insurer initially as renewal was a couple of weeks away and my insurer at the time was no help, then later I had an official letter explaining the situation.
But for probably 5 years every time I got insurance I would get contacted afterwards saying "you have a claim on the database against you" and every time I would have to go back again and say can you please remove the marker but both mine (at the time) and the other parties insurance kept saying it was the other that could only do it.
Thankfully that letter was worth it's weight in gold.
Long story short someone wrote down an N instead of an M for the reg.Mine being a red Octavia and not a grey Astra!
I had to do all the donkey work trying to prove my innocence.
I went with a specialist insurer initially as renewal was a couple of weeks away and my insurer at the time was no help, then later I had an official letter explaining the situation.
But for probably 5 years every time I got insurance I would get contacted afterwards saying "you have a claim on the database against you" and every time I would have to go back again and say can you please remove the marker but both mine (at the time) and the other parties insurance kept saying it was the other that could only do it.
Thankfully that letter was worth it's weight in gold.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff