Discussion
Just watching an old traffic cops episode, Traffic BIB stop a suspicious car, speak to the chap, not carrying any id on him, or in the car, BIB not convinced with the name, pulled etc etc...
Now, I never go out without my wallet with driving license, credit cards, business cards, insurance docs in the glove box etc. I don't carry this for id, purely because i'm might need them.
So....Does anyone on here regularly go out and about without carrying anything with could be used to confirm ID? And how many arrests are made by the BIB becasue they can't confirm id?
And how much more suspicious is a BIB likely to be of anyone if they are not carrying id?
Now, I never go out without my wallet with driving license, credit cards, business cards, insurance docs in the glove box etc. I don't carry this for id, purely because i'm might need them.
So....Does anyone on here regularly go out and about without carrying anything with could be used to confirm ID? And how many arrests are made by the BIB becasue they can't confirm id?
And how much more suspicious is a BIB likely to be of anyone if they are not carrying id?
lambo cop said:
The power in question is :-
SECTION 25 Pace General Power of Arrest for Non-Arrestable Offences
The usual procedure for prosecution of non-arrestable offences is by way of a summons to appear before magistrates. But where the police reasonably suspect you of committing or having committed a non-arrestable offence, then they may arrest you if they believe that the service of a summons in impractical because any one of the general arrest conditions under Section 25 of PACE is satisfied.
These conditions are as follows:
(1) They cannot establish your name or they think you have given a false one, OR
(2) They cannot establish an address suitable for the service of a summons or they think you have given a false one, OR
(3) They have reasonable grounds to believe arrest is necessary to prevent you from doing any of the following:
(i) causing physical injury to yourself or any other person, OR
(ii) suffering physical injury; OR
(iii) causing loss of or damage to property; OR
(iv) committing an offence against public decency, OR
(v) causing an unlawful obstruction of the highway.
However a decent Copper dealing with Traffic offences has various routes they can go to establishing and confirming your ID without seeing any form of ID. These are Name / Vehicle checks via PNC, or many other ways etc. etc.
Don't worry we don't just drag you off because you have not got your driving license on you !
And supposing your reasons for arrest are subsequently proven to be false? Then what? Any apologies for falsly detaining some and depriving them of the right to lawfully go about their business?
Nah! course not! Result? Another alienated "customer".
I very rarely carry ID on me, particularly in the summer when I tend to live in a pair of shorts - ask anyone that knows me.
That's one of the problems I have with the proposed ID card scheme. OK they say you'll not have to carry it with you, but how long before that changes.
Either the law will change making you carry it or it will be impossible to use a credit card as shops look for other ways to prove your identity forcing people to carry it.
It's all very well to come up with these simplistic resolutions to current problems but it makes no allowances for the well-known factor of 'Mission-Creep'
This is when something is brought in for one reason until someone else decides it would be nice for them to use it to.
Want an example - Postcodes. Brought in initially to help deliver letters now used for everything from assessing you insurance risk to decideing what health care you get
That's one of the problems I have with the proposed ID card scheme. OK they say you'll not have to carry it with you, but how long before that changes.
Either the law will change making you carry it or it will be impossible to use a credit card as shops look for other ways to prove your identity forcing people to carry it.
It's all very well to come up with these simplistic resolutions to current problems but it makes no allowances for the well-known factor of 'Mission-Creep'
This is when something is brought in for one reason until someone else decides it would be nice for them to use it to.
Want an example - Postcodes. Brought in initially to help deliver letters now used for everything from assessing you insurance risk to decideing what health care you get
deltafox said:
And supposing your reasons for arrest are subsequently proven to be false? Then what? Any apologies for falsly detaining some and depriving them of the right to lawfully go about their business?
Nah! course not! Result? Another alienated "customer".
Nope and they also get to keep your fingerprints and DNA in their database.
Is that the reason why all offences are now arrestable?
bluesandtwos said:
After some time you get to know who is telling fibs... just watch how they tell you their name, often the name they give will be the biggest indicator.
Policeman: What’s your name?
Alan: Bill.
Policeman: Bill?
Alan: Caarr. Bill Carr.
Policeman: Where do you live, Bill? What’s your address?
Alan: King Road…King Road…
Policeman: Is there a number?
Alan: Ten! King Road in… Ipswich.
Policeman: Where are you going now?
Alan: I’m going to go home, and just probably go straight to bed and keep out of trouble.
bluepolarbear said:
And supposing your reasons for arrest are subsequently proven to be false? Then what? Any apologies for falsly detaining some and depriving them of the right to lawfully go about their business?
Nah! course not! Result? Another alienated "customer".
Nope and they also get to keep your fingerprints and DNA in their database.
Is that the reason why all offences are now arrestable?
AFAIK thats not the case? at least not till new years?Regularly travel without ID.
Probably not the best idea to be fair as it is useful for ID purposes (erm..) if I was to be killed or die, in some manner.
I cant say I am impressed by the ID card thing, I will probably get fined every day for it.
Still I am sure the Gestapo wont be all that bad.
Probably not the best idea to be fair as it is useful for ID purposes (erm..) if I was to be killed or die, in some manner.
I cant say I am impressed by the ID card thing, I will probably get fined every day for it.
Still I am sure the Gestapo wont be all that bad.
8Pack said:
Be aware that the forthcoming "Road Safety bill" includes the power of the police to extract a "Deposit" in lieu of a fine upon a motorist who cannot prove his/her identity!.........?
Let's see what "other" parties make of that...hey?..
... already there. The State has the power to expropriate your property even if you aren't convicted of any offence. This is bound to expand.
Is it significant that an Algerian terrorist has admitted that the reason his cell left France and moved to UK was because the French police adopted an aggressive pro-active stance?
The continual demand for their papers made life so difficult that they moved to UK where no papers are required to be carried and the security forces adopt a less pro-active approach.
The continual demand for their papers made life so difficult that they moved to UK where no papers are required to be carried and the security forces adopt a less pro-active approach.
eccles said:
[quote=cross-eyed-twit]
Members of the forces have to carry ID, but only when in uniform.
>> Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Sunday 30th October 08:47
Things must have changed. I had to carry my RAF ID 1250 at all times and as a Snowdrop demanded production of Military ID on or off duty, civvies or uniform.
dvd
Dwight VanDriver said:And on and off station? - Streaky
[quote=cross-eyed-twit]
Members of the forces have to carry ID, but only when in uniform.
>> Edited by cross-eyed-twit on Sunday 30th October 08:47
Things must have changed. I had to carry my RAF ID 1250 at all times and as a Snowdrop demanded production of Military ID on or off duty, civvies or uniform.
dvd
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff