Another Partnership cockup - A379 Devon
Discussion
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/england/devon/4383188.stm
[quote=bbc]
Speed convictions may be quashed
Drivers caught speeding on a Devon road could have their convictions quashed.
Mobile speed cameras often operate on the A379 at Starcross between Exeter and Dawlish.
But four cases have been dismissed because of road sign problems. Those previously convicted may get fines returned and licence points erased.
The Devon and Cornwall Safety Camera Partnership, which runs the cameras, says it is reviewing what action it will take in response to these cases.
Speeds not challenged
Mobile speed cameras have been used frequently in recent years on the busy and narrow stretch of the A379.
But the signs telling drivers of speed limits have been deemed as set too far apart.
A judge involved in the four cases dismissed charges, saying the signage and traffic orders were fatally flawed.
The four drivers were doing up to 44mph (71k/ph) in the 30mph (48k/ph), according to the cameras.
[b]This judgement may result in anyone being found guilty of speeding in the area since June 2002 being able to get their conviction dropped.[/b]
This could run into thousands and may include holidaymakers who regularly use the road en-route to Dawlish Warren or Dawlish.
Devon County Council, which is in charge of road signs, said it would wait for a full written judgement before making any comment.
[b]The Safety Camera Partnership pointed out the drivers did not challenge the speeds recorded.[/b]
It defended the use of cameras in the area, saying they had helped reduce injuries on this stretch of road to zero between 2003 and 2004. [/quote]
[quote=bbc]
Speed convictions may be quashed
Drivers caught speeding on a Devon road could have their convictions quashed.
Mobile speed cameras often operate on the A379 at Starcross between Exeter and Dawlish.
But four cases have been dismissed because of road sign problems. Those previously convicted may get fines returned and licence points erased.
The Devon and Cornwall Safety Camera Partnership, which runs the cameras, says it is reviewing what action it will take in response to these cases.
Speeds not challenged
Mobile speed cameras have been used frequently in recent years on the busy and narrow stretch of the A379.
But the signs telling drivers of speed limits have been deemed as set too far apart.
A judge involved in the four cases dismissed charges, saying the signage and traffic orders were fatally flawed.
The four drivers were doing up to 44mph (71k/ph) in the 30mph (48k/ph), according to the cameras.
[b]This judgement may result in anyone being found guilty of speeding in the area since June 2002 being able to get their conviction dropped.[/b]
This could run into thousands and may include holidaymakers who regularly use the road en-route to Dawlish Warren or Dawlish.
Devon County Council, which is in charge of road signs, said it would wait for a full written judgement before making any comment.
[b]The Safety Camera Partnership pointed out the drivers did not challenge the speeds recorded.[/b]
It defended the use of cameras in the area, saying they had helped reduce injuries on this stretch of road to zero between 2003 and 2004. [/quote]
"The Safety Camera Partnership pointed out the drivers did not challenge the speeds recorded."
As if people do challenge the speed. They are bullied and threatened into admtting their guilt, of course most accept the fine, they dont knoe any better, thats what the Partnerships rely on.
As far as no deaths occuring on that road, does that mean they are admitting that accidents and deaths on a particular road is directly contolled by their safety cameras? That would also mean that where accidents and deaths have increased on safety camerad roads, (and they mostly do), they have caused these, and more to the point, killed people?
As if people do challenge the speed. They are bullied and threatened into admtting their guilt, of course most accept the fine, they dont knoe any better, thats what the Partnerships rely on.
As far as no deaths occuring on that road, does that mean they are admitting that accidents and deaths on a particular road is directly contolled by their safety cameras? That would also mean that where accidents and deaths have increased on safety camerad roads, (and they mostly do), they have caused these, and more to the point, killed people?
trax said:
"The Safety Camera Partnership pointed out the drivers did not challenge the speeds recorded."
As if people do challenge the speed. They are bullied and threatened into admtting their guilt, of course most accept the fine, they dont knoe any better, thats what the Partnerships rely on.
As far as no deaths occuring on that road, does that mean they are admitting that accidents and deaths on a particular road is directly contolled by their safety cameras? That would also mean that where accidents and deaths have increased on safety camerad roads, (and they mostly do), they have caused these, and more to the point, killed people?
I agree. People do not challenge the speeds as it cost them days of their lives to appear in court, and costs of around £1500 for magistrates court and an appeal, only to find that the system covers over its own mistakes and shafts you.
This is the quality of the spin doctors at work, no-one has seen this yet:
It defended the use of cameras in the area, saying they had helped reduce injuries on this stretch of road to zero between 2003 and 2004.
Notice that no mention of kills or serious injuries are made. I am quite sure if they had gone down they would have mentioned it. This means they would have stayed the same or in fact increased. The only figures available which could be twisted to support their false hypothesis is the number of injuries, and again they have not even attempted to say how this tenuous link was made...
The Definition of 'Brainwashing':
brain·wash·ing (brān'wŏsh'ĭng, -wô'shĭng)
n.
Intensive, forcible indoctrination, usually political or religious, aimed at destroying a person's basic convictions and attitudes and replacing them with an alternative set of fixed beliefs.
The application of a concentrated means of persuasion, such as an advertising campaign or repeated suggestion, in order to develop a specific belief or motivation.
Something similar (to the signage problem) has happened recently in a town near me called Boston.
As you enter the town from where I live you go over two small roundabouts then go down a very long stretch of road (about a mile i would say) lined with houses (albeit set back and not literally on the path) and side streets. This long straight road takes you up to another roundabout and the town centre.
For years and years its been a 40mph limit down this stretch of road starting at the first roundabout. Recently overnight the speed limit changed to a 30 limit, why? I don't know, I hardly ever see accidents on here as its straight.
The problem with this is that the 30 limit now starts at the first roundabout and its signposted, but it isn't satellite sign posted at all down the long stretch of road. No speed limit signs whatsoever for about a mile.
So if you visit this town for the first time in ages, miss the new limit that is signposted just as you enter the roundabout (always a good place to put a speed limit eh!!) you will probably trundle down the road at 40 as its wide and open and can easily handle this.
However, if mr speed camera is there you are going to be snapped. Are there any signs suggesting a 30 limit down this road? Nope, non whatsoever.
Amazing isn't it!
As you enter the town from where I live you go over two small roundabouts then go down a very long stretch of road (about a mile i would say) lined with houses (albeit set back and not literally on the path) and side streets. This long straight road takes you up to another roundabout and the town centre.
For years and years its been a 40mph limit down this stretch of road starting at the first roundabout. Recently overnight the speed limit changed to a 30 limit, why? I don't know, I hardly ever see accidents on here as its straight.
The problem with this is that the 30 limit now starts at the first roundabout and its signposted, but it isn't satellite sign posted at all down the long stretch of road. No speed limit signs whatsoever for about a mile.
So if you visit this town for the first time in ages, miss the new limit that is signposted just as you enter the roundabout (always a good place to put a speed limit eh!!) you will probably trundle down the road at 40 as its wide and open and can easily handle this.
However, if mr speed camera is there you are going to be snapped. Are there any signs suggesting a 30 limit down this road? Nope, non whatsoever.
Amazing isn't it!
trax said:
"The Safety Camera Partnership pointed out the drivers did not challenge the speeds recorded."
As if people do challenge the speed. They are bullied and threatened into admtting their guilt, of course most accept the fine, they dont knoe any better, thats what the Partnerships rely on.
As far as no deaths occuring on that road, does that mean they are admitting that accidents and deaths on a particular road is directly contolled by their safety cameras? That would also mean that where accidents and deaths have increased on safety camerad roads, (and they mostly do), they have caused these, and more to the point, killed people?
Many good points.
Drivers can't win...
...they refute the claims they were speeding, and they are either let go, or the scameraships lie in court to convict them.
If they don't argue the toss, they must accept they were speeding so far as the scamerships are concerned regarding the fact the road wasn't properly signed.
Then where camera's "appear" to have reduced accidents, they MUST have reduced them, and where they haven't, suddenly the other factors that cause accidents are blamed.
How they can operate like this is beyond me. Clearly powers above are allowing them to operate with relative impunity, and when they do cock up, they are not being scrutinised officially.
Clearly for the money in that case. Wouldn't surprise me if Blunkett gets 10%
Dave
funkyrobot said:
Something similar (to the signage problem) has happened recently in a town near me called Boston.
As you enter the town from where I live you go over two small roundabouts then go down a very long stretch of road (about a mile i would say) lined with houses (albeit set back and not literally on the path) and side streets. This long straight road takes you up to another roundabout and the town centre.
For years and years its been a 40mph limit down this stretch of road starting at the first roundabout. Recently overnight the speed limit changed to a 30 limit,
I noticed this on a visit last week compared to Christmas 2003. The road is very w i d e.
But remember there are street lamps. And street lamps mean 30mph unless otherwise.
funkyrobot said:Are there street lights along the stretch of road? If so, then "30" repeater signs may well not be required - Streaky
Something similar (to the signage problem) has happened recently in a town near me called Boston.
As you enter the town from where I live you go over two small roundabouts then go down a very long stretch of road (about a mile i would say) lined with houses (albeit set back and not literally on the path) and side streets. This long straight road takes you up to another roundabout and the town centre.
For years and years its been a 40mph limit down this stretch of road starting at the first roundabout. Recently overnight the speed limit changed to a 30 limit, why? I don't know, I hardly ever see accidents on here as its straight.
The problem with this is that the 30 limit now starts at the first roundabout and its signposted, but it isn't satellite sign posted at all down the long stretch of road. No speed limit signs whatsoever for about a mile.
So if you visit this town for the first time in ages, miss the new limit that is signposted just as you enter the roundabout (always a good place to put a speed limit eh!!) you will probably trundle down the road at 40 as its wide and open and can easily handle this.
However, if mr speed camera is there you are going to be snapped. Are there any signs suggesting a 30 limit down this road? Nope, non whatsoever.
Amazing isn't it!
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