TS10 (Traffic lights)
Discussion
Got stopped by a regular plod the other night (white vaux astra 3dr) saying that i went through a red light.
I explained to him that in the light seqance that we were at,the lights on his side,just went amber before he had got there and that the light have no delay period. so for instance as soon as one goes red the other goes amber straight away, and as i was already passed the line i could not have gone through on a red but went through on an amber,which isnt against the law and as i had already comited my self i would become a hazard if i tryed to stop as i would been half way in the road.
one of the plod had only been on the beat for 3 days.
i refused to sign the document that he had given me to say that i accept the ts10
What i need to know is that does he have a leg to stand on. I know the lights that i supposedly went through very well as i pass through them every day
i know that i have to go to court and it will be the second time in 3 monthes so i want to nail them this time!
They got me for LOW TYRE pressure last time im not going down with out a fight!
I explained to him that in the light seqance that we were at,the lights on his side,just went amber before he had got there and that the light have no delay period. so for instance as soon as one goes red the other goes amber straight away, and as i was already passed the line i could not have gone through on a red but went through on an amber,which isnt against the law and as i had already comited my self i would become a hazard if i tryed to stop as i would been half way in the road.
one of the plod had only been on the beat for 3 days.
i refused to sign the document that he had given me to say that i accept the ts10
What i need to know is that does he have a leg to stand on. I know the lights that i supposedly went through very well as i pass through them every day
i know that i have to go to court and it will be the second time in 3 monthes so i want to nail them this time!
They got me for LOW TYRE pressure last time im not going down with out a fight!
Are you trying to say that because they saw their light go amber, this was a signal that your light had gone red? But in fact these lights show amber from both directions simultaneously?
Did they agree that this was the method they'd used to determine your light was red, ie theirs changed to amber, then you came through your light?
Or did they see the reflection in your red light just before you crossed the line?
I'm trying to understand your reasoning.
Andy
Did they agree that this was the method they'd used to determine your light was red, ie theirs changed to amber, then you came through your light?
Or did they see the reflection in your red light just before you crossed the line?
I'm trying to understand your reasoning.
Andy
Girlfriend took Surreys finest :not: to court for this. She got 3 points and a fine with a TS10 on her license. Their word against hers. No proof she ran a red, just their lights going green as she 'left' the junction. Bagshot A322 for those who know it.
She now hates the Police with a passion - well done lads. How to make friends and influence people - she's American - anyone who has been to America knows you don't run a red over there or a Pickup will T-bone you. She doesn't run red lights.
Still it got them off the streets for a day.
She now hates the Police with a passion - well done lads. How to make friends and influence people - she's American - anyone who has been to America knows you don't run a red over there or a Pickup will T-bone you. She doesn't run red lights.
Still it got them off the streets for a day.
I am pretty sure that unless they see the red light and your car cross the line with their own eyes then it is not enough to prove the offence. This is why red light cameras are always behind the line and include a picture of the light.
edit: I'm not sure why the person mentioned in the reply above failed in court, it is probably important to find case law otherwise the mag's and clerk will accept whatever the police and prosecution say.
Gareth
>> Edited by g_attrill on Tuesday 15th November 11:34
edit: I'm not sure why the person mentioned in the reply above failed in court, it is probably important to find case law otherwise the mag's and clerk will accept whatever the police and prosecution say.
Gareth
>> Edited by g_attrill on Tuesday 15th November 11:34
I got pulled over many years ago late at night for 'running a red' actually it was Amber and the street was deserted but due to the hour I suspect that Plod wanted to check for possible drink driving etc. I was sober as I was the 'designated driver' on a night out and was almost home with just the one drunken (and sleeping!) passenger.
anyway converstaion went something like this;
Plod; Good evening Sir, Is this your car?
Me; Yes, well actually it's a company car.
Plod; I see, Did you know you just ran a Red light Sir?
Me; Actually officer, it was Amber and I felt it was too late to stop comfortably and as there was no other traffic about etc.
Plod; (observing me for signs of drunkedness) Mmm.. maybe it was Amber but be more careful in future Sir.
Drunken Friend; (now woken up) Excuse me ossifer,Hic!, but if was amber when we passed it, what colour was it when you passed it?
Plod; Err Red I suppose.
Drunken Friend; Well there you go then you B*stard!! (then promptly passed out again)
Me; (with a slightly uneasy, embarrassed feeling) Err, errm, well, err sorry about that officer.
Plod; (smiling) I think you'd better get him home sir, on your way, Goodnight!
anyway converstaion went something like this;
Plod; Good evening Sir, Is this your car?
Me; Yes, well actually it's a company car.
Plod; I see, Did you know you just ran a Red light Sir?
Me; Actually officer, it was Amber and I felt it was too late to stop comfortably and as there was no other traffic about etc.
Plod; (observing me for signs of drunkedness) Mmm.. maybe it was Amber but be more careful in future Sir.
Drunken Friend; (now woken up) Excuse me ossifer,Hic!, but if was amber when we passed it, what colour was it when you passed it?
Plod; Err Red I suppose.
Drunken Friend; Well there you go then you B*stard!! (then promptly passed out again)
Me; (with a slightly uneasy, embarrassed feeling) Err, errm, well, err sorry about that officer.
Plod; (smiling) I think you'd better get him home sir, on your way, Goodnight!
ya55erm said:
.. could not have gone through on a red but went through on an amber,which isnt against the law ..
I thought Amber = Stop?
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs01.htm
echo said:
I thought Amber = Stop?
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs01.htm
No it doesn't.
highway code link said:
AMBER means 'Stop' at the stopline. You may go on only if the AMBER appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident
See?
ya55erm said:
.. could not have gone through on a red but went through on an amber,which isnt against the law ..
You're right, it isn't.
Unfortunately, in cases like this, the court has the evidence of a policeman, against you - and unless you can absolutely prove that he is wrong, the benefit of the doubt will not swing your way... And 0ne second after the "offence is committed" the lights have changed and the evidence is gone - you're struggling!
Any CCTV in the area that might have caught it?
echo said:
.. could not have gone through on a red but went through on an amber,which isnt against the law ..
I thought Amber = Stop?
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs01.htm
highway code said:
AMBER means 'Stop' at the stopline. You may go on only if the AMBER appears after you have crossed the stop line or are so close to it that to pull up might cause an accident
Only stop if its safe. If your 2 foot away from a light at 60mph and it goes Amber, it's certainly not safe to stop.
catso said:
I got pulled over many years ago late at night for 'running a red' actually it was Amber and the street was deserted but due to the hour I suspect that Plod wanted to check for possible drink driving etc. I was sober as I was the 'designated driver' on a night out and was almost home with just the one drunken (and sleeping!) passenger.
anyway converstaion went something like this;
Plod; Good evening Sir, Is this your car?
Me; Yes, well actually it's a company car.
Plod; I see, Did you know you just ran a Red light Sir?
Me; Actually officer, it was Amber and I felt it was too late to stop comfortably and as there was no other traffic about etc.
Plod; (observing me for signs of drunkedness) Mmm.. maybe it was Amber but be more careful in future Sir.
Drunken Friend; (now woken up) Excuse me ossifer,Hic!, but if was amber when we passed it, what colour was it when you passed it?
Plod; Err Red I suppose.
Drunken Friend; Well there you go then you B*stard!! (then promptly passed out again)
Me; (with a slightly uneasy, embarrassed feeling) Err, errm, well, err sorry about that officer.
Plod; (smiling) I think you'd better get him home sir, on your way, Goodnight!
LOL.
I got down nearly 4 years ago for going through a amber light. (He PC said it was red). I was stopped by 4 police cars!!!!!
When I made a complaint I ended up with 5 cars parked outside the house in a 4 day period and then one of them came to interview me about an assault on a young woman!!!
I was advised by the Police Complaints to get rid of the car as it was on a list on the local police station to be stopped on sight!
When I made a complaint I ended up with 5 cars parked outside the house in a 4 day period and then one of them came to interview me about an assault on a young woman!!!
I was advised by the Police Complaints to get rid of the car as it was on a list on the local police station to be stopped on sight!
So, we know what to do now. When Plod are behind us, and the lights gone yellow quite late, slam on and try and stop. When they dink you, they get done for travelling too close, get a lesson why going through on amber is safe in some circumstances, and you get a new back end to your car, or even a whole new one!
Yay.
Just as a thing I've noticed, I'm one for stopping at amber if I can, I don't trust other people setting off from their side and crossing over me half way as I've seen happen.
However, sometimes when it is too late, I go through on amber, as I realise I could probably *just* stop, but it is better to carry on. But the car behind goes through as well, and then sometimes the one AFTER that!
Yikes. Many people have a death wish!
Dave
Yay.
Just as a thing I've noticed, I'm one for stopping at amber if I can, I don't trust other people setting off from their side and crossing over me half way as I've seen happen.
However, sometimes when it is too late, I go through on amber, as I realise I could probably *just* stop, but it is better to carry on. But the car behind goes through as well, and then sometimes the one AFTER that!
Yikes. Many people have a death wish!
Dave
I got stopped for going through a red light while giving a driving lesson. We were turning right at crossroads, lights were green so we moved towards the centre (past the stop line) to give way to oncoming traffic. The lights changed to red and oncoming traffic stopped, we moved off before the traffic from left and right moved. Sitting to the left was a marked up car who promptly put his disco lights and na na's on. When we stopped the conversation went;
Me: Why have you stopped us?
Cop: You have just come through a red light
Me: No we dindn't. You watched us sit stationary in the correct place after the stop line
Cop: Both me and my colleuge witnessed you go through on red, but dont worry, we won't prosecute you this time
Me: So why have you stopped us?
Cop: To warn you to be more carefull in future. Thanks you sir, goodbye
Me: Why have you stopped us?
Cop: You have just come through a red light
Me: No we dindn't. You watched us sit stationary in the correct place after the stop line
Cop: Both me and my colleuge witnessed you go through on red, but dont worry, we won't prosecute you this time
Me: So why have you stopped us?
Cop: To warn you to be more carefull in future. Thanks you sir, goodbye
rewc said:
Why are people on the forum generally in favour of having more police on the road because 'they will use their discretion' when the posting on this subject seem to suggest that they can be incompetent and vindictive?
Because they can be both - there are THOUSANDS of police in the country. Perhaps even 10 of them are trafpol!
And for some offences we'd rather the judgement of a copper than the futile "computer says no" of a camera. FWIW, I think red-light jumping is BEST policed via red-light cameras. It's an absolute offence which, except at 4am, is very likely to be dangerous.
Conversely, speed-limits are arbitrary, and whether a given speed is inappropriate is wholly dependent on circumstances. So speeding offences are best judged by an experienced copper, ideally with video!
On the same vein, DUI, DD, and DWDCAA offences are subjective, and arguably require a flesh-and-blood copper...although there too video evidence (last two) would be very useful to corroborate the copper's opinion.
"Trust but verify", as the cold-war diplomats used to say.
The only time I ever ticketed anyone for this was when observing the lights in the same direction as the car was travelling, i.e the same as a traffic light camera. I would only ticket people who went through on red if at the point you saw the light go to amber, they put their foot down and still managed to go through on red! Basically, they could have stopped safely. I would include that in my written evidence along with an approximation of how long the light was on red when they passed the line.
If I were you, I would film the sequence from both directions and then compare to the officers evidence. If he has noted the sequence incorrectly then that might be enough to cast doubt on his observational skills.
#
If I were you, I would film the sequence from both directions and then compare to the officers evidence. If he has noted the sequence incorrectly then that might be enough to cast doubt on his observational skills.
#
tvrgit said:
Unfortunately, in cases like this, the court has the evidence of a policeman, against you - and unless you can absolutely prove that he is wrong, the benefit of the doubt will not swing your way... And 0ne second after the "offence is committed" the lights have changed and the evidence is gone - you're struggling!
The point is that the officer wasn't observing the lights that ya55er was sitting at, he was at a completely different set of lights the other side of the road. I am guessing that in law, the fact they might have been linked on a timer is irrelevant.
Gareth
Thanks for the advise guys,
A friend of mine says that no matter what happens i should not admit guilt.
Also i think i should film the lights but what do you think the magistrates will think if i turn up with a flat screen under my arm with a film of traffic lights?
i dont want to do all this if they are going to just piss me about.
A friend of mine says that no matter what happens i should not admit guilt.
Also i think i should film the lights but what do you think the magistrates will think if i turn up with a flat screen under my arm with a film of traffic lights?
i dont want to do all this if they are going to just piss me about.
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