Parking ticket I don't recall getting...

[miniandy]

Hi chaps,

I'm unlucky. I received a 'Notice to Owner' saying a penalty charge notice was issued to my vehicle. The thing is, I am certain I did not receive the actual ticket. If I had done, I would have paid it within the 14 days as it is cheaper. What should I do?

Thanks

[ewenm]

A lot of traffic wardens/parking attendants now take a photo of the offending car as evidence. Try finding out if this is the case for you.

[miniandy]

The ones I have seen in the area I was 'ticketed' don't carry cameras...

[Dwight VanDriver]

Consider writing back to them stating that you never received a PCN personally nor one put on your car and that you have no recollection of any infringment. Ask for a photograph/details of identity of vehicle as it may be possible a clone has been made of your VRM.

Be aware that:

(1) In the old days if they didn't put a PCN on the vehicle or hand to the driver they could not enforce. Legislation now in force in London for PCN to be issued from CCTV or if Attendant prevented from issuing PCN held to be good.

(2) Known for Attendants to make a note of Excise Licence No of offending vehicle.

dvd

>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Friday 18th November 15:22

[miniandy]

DVD on the ball as usual. Good man!

I did have my number plates stolen about 2 months ago - perhaps someone has cloned my car? Worth a shot I guess. If they don't budge, would they give me the opportunity to pay the reduced charge, as I haven't had the opportunity to do so? It's Glasgow city council BTW.

Cheers

[iaint]

I remeber a thread round here from a chap fighting a ticket given to his wife/partner who was legally parked (a community nurse iirc). It was almost unbelievable the way he was having to fight for justice and this doesn't give me much faith that you'll get anything other than a hard time from them.

[Boosted Ls1]

They can issue a ticket as or after you leave and drive away. This happened to me except the scum bag didn't put it on my car whilst he was watching it. Next thing I got the 60 day notice and I'd only stopped for 3 mins or so to deliver documents. I appealed and it was dropped, I suspect because he had no photograph or had complaints already pending.

Boosted.

[streaky]

Recent report that in many London boroughs well over 50% of all appeals are found in favour of the appellant, by virtue of the authority dropping the claim immediately prior to hearing. This practice of pursuing the claim then dropping it at the last moment has been strongly deprecated - Streaky

[A57 HSV]

www.appealnow.com

You may well have had a "Ghost" ticket. I had one, for an offence that never existed. They just target firms & more expensive looking cars, with the hope that the tickets will just get paid. It's a totally outrageous practise, carried out by Attendants who need to get their ticket fiqures up, despite this being denied. A TV documentary this year highlighted this & other scams.
I fought it with the help of a couple of witnesses and won. Do the same, the above site will gve you all the help you need.

[kneedowndeano]

I'd fight it if i was you, but be careful that they don't try and pull a quick one on you. Cheeky tw4ts at Bromley council somehow rejected my disagreement even though they had no photo evidence of my car being there and didn't have the reg number of my tax disc (a photo was taken of the place where the car "might" have been) and i argued that there was no ticket placed on my car. in the end i gave up (i knew i shouldn't have) as it was too much hassle for a £40 fine. I think the reason why they gave me a ticket is because i stopped in a parking bay for about 5 mins and didn't pay (although i was on the mobile phone at the time, hence the reason why i stopped).

[miniandy]

Hello. Thanks for all the replies. I submitted my appeal on the grounds that I did not receive a ticket, and have no recollection of the event. I also advised of my reg being stolen, and so it's possible I was cloned. They have replied back saying that I need to send them a "clear copy of the vehicle excise licence and log book for the vehicle" within 14 days. However, it also says at the bottom of the letter that "Failure to either provide the information requested or make payment, will result in a notice to owner being issued." Is this not what I have already, and if so, will I just wait until they send one again?! It also says that this will allow the owner to make formal representations - is this not going round in circles, and if I make more representations we'll arrive at a stalemate?

Any advice welcome as always.

Cheers

[markh508]

miniandy said:

They have replied back saying that I need to send them a "clear copy of the vehicle excise licence and log book for the vehicle" within 14 days.

That sounds dodgy - like maybe they don't have the serial number on the tax disc already but when you send your copy they'll just read off the number, then and claim it matches what they had already and so the fine must be valid.

[Flat in Fifth]

markh508 said:

miniandy said: They have replied back saying that I need to send them a "clear copy of the vehicle excise licence and log book for the vehicle" within 14 days. That sounds dodgy - like maybe they don't have the serial number on the tax disc already but when you send your copy they'll just read off the number, then and claim it matches what they had already and so the fine must be valid.

Perhaps play them at their own game..... as in "you tell me what VEL details you have first and I will respond with the details on my car by return."

[BliarOut]

Flat in Fifth said:

markh508 said: miniandy said: They have replied back saying that I need to send them a "clear copy of the vehicle excise licence and log book for the vehicle" within 14 days. That sounds dodgy - like maybe they don't have the serial number on the tax disc already but when you send your copy they'll just read off the number, then and claim it matches what they had already and so the fine must be valid. Perhaps play them at their own game..... as in "you tell me what VEL details you have first and I will respond with the details on my car by return."

Very wise words as usual FiF. How about ading a time stipulation of five working days (well it is christmas) so that you can then comply with their request?

Recorded delivery goes without saying.

[Dwight VanDriver]

Is this letter from the LA issuing the ticket or the Adjudicator?(see my other post on stages of appeal).

If it the local Authority then I can see giving them details could play into their hands. If this is the case outline this and suggest a meeting where following disclosure of their evidence on Excise identity you will produce that requested.

If not from Parking Adjudicator then tell them you want him to review the case.

dvd

[miniandy]

Hello,

Thanks again for the replies.

The letter is from Glasgow City Council and I was slightly apprehensive about sending in details of my tax and log book. I will follow the advice on here, and request they disclose the information they hold first before I do the same. I'll let you know! I also have the option to go the appeals route if this is unsuccessful.

Cheers

[Flat in Fifth]

I was thinking about this thread on the way home.

Hasn't our country got to a parlous state where concerning the request for your VEL and logbook details the first thing that DVD, Bliarout and I think of is that the local authority system would be so corrupt as to use this information to stitch you up.

Shakes head and heads off to Tescos for another of these £9.99 MP£ players..... bet the buggers have all gone.....

[miniandy]

Hello,

Just to update you all on this parking issue that has been ongoing for months. I appealed before Christmas asking them to disclose the information they held, and I have just received a reply today!

It's not good.

It goes as follows:

Glasgow Council said:

I have investigated this matter and I am satisfied that the PCN was issued correctly. I regret therefore that I am unable to direct cancellation in this instance. The issuing Parking Attendant's notes confirm that VRM ***** a Black Renault Clio was observed to be waiting in a Pay and Display bay whilst not displaying a valid Pay and Display ticket. As you are unable to provide the information requested, I am unable to consider this matter further. I would further advise you that the issuing Parking Attendant has noted that the PCN was affixed to the vehicle in the correct manner at the time of issue. The removal of a PCN from a vehicle by an unauthorised person does not invalidate the charge, however on this occasion only I am prepared to reinstate the discount period.

What a load of rubbish. It goes on to say:

Glasgow Council said:

If payment is not received a Notice to Owner will be issued to enable the owner to make a formal representation. Glasgow Council is obliged to consider any representation made. If rejected the owner may appeal to a parking adjudicator

So what do I do now? I think it is ridiculous that they will not take the matter further as I did not supply my tax disc or log book. Why should I? They should disclose the information they hold! Surely that is mandatory under the new Disclosure Act, or at least Data Protection Act?

What annoyed me further was that they said I was observed to be waiting - if I was, would I not surely drive off to avoid a ticket? Of course they would say that they affixed the ticket in the correct manner!

I'm really annoyed. Can anyone (DVD/FIF) offer any advice?

[justinp1]

If you look closely, betwwen the lines the letter says:

We know you are probably right, but you wont have the balls to follow this up especially if we offer you the discounted rate.

If this was continued all the way to court (which I doubt they would do), there would be 2 sides:

Yours would be that you were of course sat in the vehicle and no ticket was placed on your car. After all, you could have just driven off!

Theirs would be that they successfully put a ticket on your car whilst you were sat in it...


I know which common sense dictates would be true, and which way an outsider would see the case. Also the mountain or admin to dispute a case puts a driver in a very bad situation, and the ticketer has every motive to 'log' to get their 'commission', with the full knowledge you will just pay up!

[puggit]

These days almost all little Hitlers carry cameras. Find out if the relevant bunch of idiots do, and if they do - why wasn't a picture taken.

QED...