Accident advice - PH wisdom please
Discussion
My girlfriend's sister and her boyfriend involved in an accident this afternoon in Birmingham. Luckily neither of them are seriously injured, just seems to be bruising across the chest from the seatbelts and whiplash.
What happened:
They were crossing a large crossroad type junction with traffic lights on and they had a green light to go straight ahead. Someone in a car opposite also had a green light (no filter) and turned right without seeing them and sister's boyfriend's car, a Lotus Elise, went straight into the side of them. Boyfriend is unsure about how fast he was going but says that it could not have been much over 25mph, but the impact was pretty hard. It seems that the BiB turned up at the scene and the first one they spoke to said to them that he didn't believe they were doing that speed and that the impact looked more than 25mph as they had pushed the other driver's car down the road quite a ways. However, the other two BiB were completely sympathetic and said it was the other driver's fault as she was supposed to give way.
When the accident first happened, the other driver got out of her car and started to have a go at them, saying, "You were going too
fast" but then backed off as soon as she realised that sister was hurt, wheezing and panicking because the seatbelt had locked and hurt her chest. They did not talk to the other driver again, but the Police gave them her details.
They breathalysed boyfriend and this was all clear, and apparently spoke about a producer but never got around to giving him one, or any of their details, copies of their statements etc. It seems an ambulance was called as well but they did not need to go to the hospital. Sister gets the impression that the other driver is going to try and say it's their fault for going too fast.
The junction was also covered by CCTV, the BiB told them this was on a time delay.
No witnesses would come forward, despite the accident being witnessed by a number of people. The BiB spoke to one other driver who although she was uncomplimentary about boyfriend, refused to give her details, so there are effectively no witnesses.
I have told her that she should immediately make a diagram of what happened and write it all down before memory starts fading.
My questions are:
1. How do they get a copy of the CCTV?
2. Would the insurance company push for 50/50 because there are no witnesses?
3. Is there any way the other driver could get a prosecution against them?
4. Is there anything else they should do?
Both cars were towed, and from what she tells me, sounds like the Elise may be a write off.
I would appreciate any advice, especially from the BiB on here.
Thanks in advance.
What happened:
They were crossing a large crossroad type junction with traffic lights on and they had a green light to go straight ahead. Someone in a car opposite also had a green light (no filter) and turned right without seeing them and sister's boyfriend's car, a Lotus Elise, went straight into the side of them. Boyfriend is unsure about how fast he was going but says that it could not have been much over 25mph, but the impact was pretty hard. It seems that the BiB turned up at the scene and the first one they spoke to said to them that he didn't believe they were doing that speed and that the impact looked more than 25mph as they had pushed the other driver's car down the road quite a ways. However, the other two BiB were completely sympathetic and said it was the other driver's fault as she was supposed to give way.
When the accident first happened, the other driver got out of her car and started to have a go at them, saying, "You were going too
fast" but then backed off as soon as she realised that sister was hurt, wheezing and panicking because the seatbelt had locked and hurt her chest. They did not talk to the other driver again, but the Police gave them her details. They breathalysed boyfriend and this was all clear, and apparently spoke about a producer but never got around to giving him one, or any of their details, copies of their statements etc. It seems an ambulance was called as well but they did not need to go to the hospital. Sister gets the impression that the other driver is going to try and say it's their fault for going too fast.
The junction was also covered by CCTV, the BiB told them this was on a time delay.
No witnesses would come forward, despite the accident being witnessed by a number of people. The BiB spoke to one other driver who although she was uncomplimentary about boyfriend, refused to give her details, so there are effectively no witnesses.
I have told her that she should immediately make a diagram of what happened and write it all down before memory starts fading.
My questions are:
1. How do they get a copy of the CCTV?
2. Would the insurance company push for 50/50 because there are no witnesses?
3. Is there any way the other driver could get a prosecution against them?
4. Is there anything else they should do?
Both cars were towed, and from what she tells me, sounds like the Elise may be a write off.
I would appreciate any advice, especially from the BiB on here.
Thanks in advance.
CCTV - Probably operated by Local Authrority, so best ringing up their helpline - will be published on their website. They might be able to help, but get it requested fast, as they may not keep tapes for too long.
Insurance - Probably go knock for knock, as it means they dont need to actually do any work.(Jaded and cynical old git that I am)
Prosecution - Probably no need to worry about that as IIRC dont they have to warn you then and there.
Anything else - get it all written down tonight, with diagrams, then go back tomorrow with disposable camera, and take phots from all sorts of angles, with shots of scraped roads (if any). Dont use digital.
Persevere.
Hope that GF is feeling better by now..
Insurance - Probably go knock for knock, as it means they dont need to actually do any work.(Jaded and cynical old git that I am)
Prosecution - Probably no need to worry about that as IIRC dont they have to warn you then and there.
Anything else - get it all written down tonight, with diagrams, then go back tomorrow with disposable camera, and take phots from all sorts of angles, with shots of scraped roads (if any). Dont use digital.
Persevere.
Hope that GF is feeling better by now..
Unfortunately, this shows two things which are becoming a current trend:
People not accepting blame for the insurance for when they are at fault and;
Insurance companies going for a 50/50 or even a 90/10. As well as not having to do much work apart from negotiate a deal with the other insurance company, more importantly it means that *both* parties lose their no claims bonus, so effectively both companies cover what they have just paid out by your increased insurance rate for the amount of years you had no claims bonus. Your saving with no claims could easily be £1000 over five years or £5000. If they take your no claims away you would only save £0+£200+£400+£600+£800 thus they have charged you £3000 extra on your premium which may pay for a lot of the damage anyway.
I think the guy who said 'going too fast' was really trying to cover the fact that he was completely in the wrong. If you are turning right and you drive into the side of someones car you are 100% at fault as it is not your right of way and if someone drives into the side of your car, there is not much you can do to avoid it.
Here is an interesting point: If the guy turned right as he did not see your friends car, then how does he know how fast he was going!!???
Or if he did see your friends car, made an assessment of his speed, after this he continued to drive into the side of the car he was so avidly watching!?
Tell your friend to stick to his guns. Force his insurance company for a 100% claim, and accept no less.
People not accepting blame for the insurance for when they are at fault and;
Insurance companies going for a 50/50 or even a 90/10. As well as not having to do much work apart from negotiate a deal with the other insurance company, more importantly it means that *both* parties lose their no claims bonus, so effectively both companies cover what they have just paid out by your increased insurance rate for the amount of years you had no claims bonus. Your saving with no claims could easily be £1000 over five years or £5000. If they take your no claims away you would only save £0+£200+£400+£600+£800 thus they have charged you £3000 extra on your premium which may pay for a lot of the damage anyway.
I think the guy who said 'going too fast' was really trying to cover the fact that he was completely in the wrong. If you are turning right and you drive into the side of someones car you are 100% at fault as it is not your right of way and if someone drives into the side of your car, there is not much you can do to avoid it.
Here is an interesting point: If the guy turned right as he did not see your friends car, then how does he know how fast he was going!!???
Or if he did see your friends car, made an assessment of his speed, after this he continued to drive into the side of the car he was so avidly watching!?
Tell your friend to stick to his guns. Force his insurance company for a 100% claim, and accept no less.
Injury accident and a very apparent due care. BiB attended. Are they not investigating and putting a file in for due care against the right turner.?
Do not tell me they have started to cuff injury accidents now?.
Badger them and they may at least have the details of witnesses they spoke to.
dvd
Do not tell me they have started to cuff injury accidents now?.
Badger them and they may at least have the details of witnesses they spoke to.
dvd
It seems that the BiB are not investigating the accident, as they didn't give sister and boyfriend any details or copies of reports. They also didn't give him a producer, which surprised me.
The only witness they spoke to refused to give her details and no-one else would come forward.
I do agree that there is a tendency these days towards people refusing to accept blame for something that is blatantly their fault, maybe as you say hoping that the insurance company will not bother to argue too much and they won't lose out as badly as if they accepted full blame.
The only witness they spoke to refused to give her details and no-one else would come forward.
I do agree that there is a tendency these days towards people refusing to accept blame for something that is blatantly their fault, maybe as you say hoping that the insurance company will not bother to argue too much and they won't lose out as badly as if they accepted full blame.
justinp1 said:
If you are turning right and you drive into the side of someones car you are 100% at fault as it is not your right of way and if someone drives into the side of your car, there is not much you can do to avoid it.
When I re-read this, I got the impression that the other driver turned infront of the car, and then Imadreamers mates drove into the side of the other car. If that is the case, I think the insurance companies may well go for a knock for knock. Although the other driver did not have right of way, and should not have turned, you can always argue that you need to be able to stop....
Imadreamer said:
My girlfriend's sister and her boyfriend involved in an accident this afternoon in Birmingham. Luckily neither of them are seriously injured, just seems to be bruising across the chest from the seatbelts and whiplash.
What happened:
They were crossing a large crossroad type junction with traffic lights on and they had a green light to go straight ahead. Someone in a car opposite also had a green light (no filter) and turned right without seeing them and sister's boyfriend's car, a Lotus Elise, went straight into the side of them. Boyfriend is unsure about how fast he was going but says that it could not have been much over 25mph, but the impact was pretty hard. It seems that the BiB turned up at the scene and the first one they spoke to said to them that he didn't believe they were doing that speed and that the impact looked more than 25mph as they had pushed the other driver's car down the road quite a ways. However, the other two BiB were completely sympathetic and said it was the other driver's fault as she was supposed to give way.
If she was fairly stationary at time of turn - then quite possible for shunt down road at 25- 30 mph (which would still be legal - nicht?) Also - BiB do not seem to be taking account of the crumple zone as even Elise ist designed to crumple to "protect" - so "impact" ist always going to look worse regardless. In fact JV prog did special on this - whereby a hit at 5mph causes crumple to point of write -off in some cars. Ist part of the "protect pedestrain und cyclist" policy if you collide. Ist why 30 mph ist deemed so "safe"
these days whereas 20 mph hit in Moggie und your "victims" are shaking hand with "Jack the Demon Stoker!" Highway Code does say in rule 156 that the right turner should wait for gap und HC also says in repeated rule that you should not make another have to swerve to avoid you!
Imadreamer said:
When the accident first happened, the other driver got out of her car and started to have a go at them, saying, "You were going too
Ist always the case - they immediately blame the other party.
Was she also breathalised? She should have been if other party was und she made the turn into his path. Iamdreamer said:
They breathalysed boyfriend and this was all clear, and apparently spoke about a producer but never got around to giving him one, or any of their details, copies of their statements etc. It seems an ambulance was called as well but they did not need to go to the hospital. Sister gets the impression that the other driver is going to try and say it's their fault for going too fast.
Of course she will - she does not want to lose her no claims!
have you got legal doo-dahs on policy? Try site call Five-O - cannot remember link - ist on here somewhere though. Chaps on there are insurance wallies und could advise you. If you were at 30 mph even in junction on green light flow - you are still within law und she should have judged your speed better und waited for gap in traffic per HC 156 - which you should tell your insurers she obviously did not abide by
It help that they know you know the rules of road Iamdreamer said:
The junction was also covered by CCTV, the BiB told them this was on a time delay.
No witnesses would come forward, despite the accident being witnessed by a number of people. The BiB spoke to one other driver who although she was uncomplimentary about boyfriend, refused to give her details, so there are effectively no witnesses.
Girlies sticking together...
Something tell me fact he was in Elise was basis of her uncomlimentary comment Iamdreamer said:
I have told her that she should immediately make a diagram of what happened and write it all down before memory starts fading.
Go back to site - take photos und some live film footage as it help refresh memory und also show typical traffic flow at the junction as well. It also help the diagram business too - maybe as they may be better able to mark the spot und relevant road markings. No harm in sending photos to insurers either in case of dispute.
Iamdreamer said:
My questions are:
1. How do they get a copy of the CCTV?
2. Would the insurance company push for 50/50 because there are no witnesses?
3. Is there any way the other driver could get a prosecution against them?
4. Is there anything else they should do?
Follow advice as give to obtain CCTV footage - but do it quickly as they loop the tapes und may record over it.
If their word against hers - may be 50/50 - hence make sure they have sufficient photo evidence of scene - und if they cannot get the actual CCTV footage showing crash - then some photos und maybe own video of normal traffic conditions at this junction may help work out her actual postion when hit - taken also points of impact und damage on both vehicles.
If police are not going to prosecute und chap was not speeding und she turned into traffic - misjudging speed of approach of oncoming car - then all I think she could do ist try to claim damage in civil law - und may fail as she did turn into the oncoming traffic in any case.
As an Exige owner (same chassis as the elise), The car might not be a write off as the there is a composite crash-structure bonded to the chassis tub. If the impact was straight on, then it might look worse than it is. It is a question of just cutting the now-compromised composite section off and bonding a new one on (and of course the new front clam etc..)
I just went thru this crap also, ie, a fender bender with no witnesses etc.. the verdict came down to 50/50 as it was deemed there was a modicum of truth in each partys statements but alas nothing conclusive..pah..
I just went thru this crap also, ie, a fender bender with no witnesses etc.. the verdict came down to 50/50 as it was deemed there was a modicum of truth in each partys statements but alas nothing conclusive..pah..
Latest on this is that it seems the Elise was towed at 45 degrees on the back of the Police tow truck. Because the cars were on a busy junction, the BiB insisted on towing both at the same time instead of waiting for respective insurers to arrange tow trucks. They put the other driver's car on top of the truck and then hooked up the Elise on a tilt on the back. I was utterly gobsmacked when I heard this as it's likely the Elise will be damaged at the back now as well.
Also, they were told yesterday that the car was on its' way back from Birmingham at 1pm, only to find out that this wasn't actually the case and that it had only been towed 4 miles down the road to another garage where it was left unsecured overnight.
Sister made a number of phone calls about the CCTV and was told by the police station that she should leave it because they were investigating the accident and would request the CCTV themselves.
Also, they were told yesterday that the car was on its' way back from Birmingham at 1pm, only to find out that this wasn't actually the case and that it had only been towed 4 miles down the road to another garage where it was left unsecured overnight.
Sister made a number of phone calls about the CCTV and was told by the police station that she should leave it because they were investigating the accident and would request the CCTV themselves.
Not sure why your sister would need the CCTV, particularly if it turns out her b/f was doing in excess of the speed limit! The person turning right has admitted to either not seeing or misjudging the speed of the oncoming car. Surely that should be the end of it from the point of view of the insurance company?
The police may want to take action against one driver or both but even so they might have a problem getting any speeding charge to stick.
I would wait to see what the insurance company says. After all at first sight the other driver is obviously to blame!
The police may want to take action against one driver or both but even so they might have a problem getting any speeding charge to stick.
I would wait to see what the insurance company says. After all at first sight the other driver is obviously to blame!
chrisgr31 said:
Not sure why your sister would need the CCTV, particularly if it turns out her b/f was doing in excess of the speed limit! The person turning right has admitted to either not seeing or misjudging the speed of the oncoming car. Surely that should be the end of it from the point of view of the insurance company?
The police may want to take action against one driver or both but even so they might have a problem getting any speeding charge to stick.
I would wait to see what the insurance company says. After all at first sight the other driver is obviously to blame!
I agree. There would be no evidence whatsoever that the Elise was speeding, indeed it probably wasnt. What is hugely likely is that the guy turning right drove into the side of the Elise as he either didnt bother to look as he assumed the green light was just for him, or did not judge the speed of the aproaching car. Either way, it is his car in the wrong place! It would be exactly the same if you drove on the opposite side of the road, and then complained that the guy you drove into head on was speeding, so must be his fault you crashed.
In cases like this it is best not to complicate the issue with more evidence than you need. All this will do is provide the guy and his insurance company with the hope in finding a 'grey area' or some doubt in the story.
Similar thing happened to me two years and one week ago!
I used a claims management company. When they heard I was on a stop and the woman was on a give way, they suggested going for a 50:50.
It took me nine months of arguing to get a result, finally resolved when I provided a photo of my damage, impact being to the offside corner of my front wing.
Impact point on her car was somewhere along the front bumper.
The claims company was very aggressive in trying to bully me into submission, but digging in paid off. Apparently, it all hinged around the impact points on the cars, complicated by the stop/give way signs.
I used a claims management company. When they heard I was on a stop and the woman was on a give way, they suggested going for a 50:50.
It took me nine months of arguing to get a result, finally resolved when I provided a photo of my damage, impact being to the offside corner of my front wing.
Impact point on her car was somewhere along the front bumper.
The claims company was very aggressive in trying to bully me into submission, but digging in paid off. Apparently, it all hinged around the impact points on the cars, complicated by the stop/give way signs.
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