help ! or advice .
Discussion
just got my self a bit of a speeding problem but not sure if its fair, hear goes folks, pulled of a dual carriage way onto an a road with no indication of the speed limit as in no road or signe's stating wot the limit was, half a mile later there was a speed trap hiding (sorry parked) in the lay by they clocked me at 45mph ( wow) not nowing wot the speed limit was i turned back half a mile later and going the other way it actually stated 30 so guess wot i'm saying is from pulling off the carriage way till hitting the tossers there was no indication 2 wot speed i should be doing, is this fair or should it be up 2 me 2 do 30 untill i see i signe, thank u . steve.
Usually limits are posted on both sides of the road when you turn off a dual carriageway. There are also usually small repeater signs repeated afterwards. The exception is where there are regulalry spaced (200m or less apart) streetlights. This is automatically a 30 unless otherwise indicated.
If there was no signing and no streetlights, then they shouldn't be enforcing speed there.
Go back and drive it again carefully - look particularly within 20m of the junction with the dual carrageway - that is where you would expect to see the sign.
If it is not signed, the pepipoo may help you with what to do next.
If there was no signing and no streetlights, then they shouldn't be enforcing speed there.
Go back and drive it again carefully - look particularly within 20m of the junction with the dual carrageway - that is where you would expect to see the sign.
If it is not signed, the pepipoo may help you with what to do next.
Depends.
Depends on if there was street lighting on the road they caught you, and what the spacing is between lamps. Otherwise, the limit must be signed.
Best spin on over to www.pepipoo.com and ask there.
Depends on if there was street lighting on the road they caught you, and what the spacing is between lamps. Otherwise, the limit must be signed.
Best spin on over to www.pepipoo.com and ask there.
, cos he sez it better and faster than me! 
mak said:
just got my self a bit of a speeding problem but not sure if its fair, hear goes folks, pulled of a dual carriage way onto an a road with no indication of the speed limit as in no road or signe's stating wot the limit was, half a mile later there was a speed trap hiding (sorry parked) in the lay by they clocked me at 45mph ( wow) not nowing wot the speed limit was i turned back half a mile later and going the other way it actually stated 30 so guess wot i'm saying is from pulling off the carriage way till hitting the tossers there was no indication 2 wot speed i should be doing, is this fair or should it be up 2 me 2 do 30 untill i see i signe, thank u . steve.
From your profile Liebchen - it say you hail from Nottingscamshire
Rule of thumb - no sign - assume 30 mph until you see one.
In fairness to Cumbria - they do have repeaters in the 20 mph zones (which are needless und even Steviebabes must concur as in fairness to him - he gave us useful contact name to complain. If he agreed - he would have told us in his offhand sub-marinated way to lump it.
_ See Steviebabes - if you still lurk - am very fair to you.
You did ask how we get on... we are in exchange of e-mail. We are on speaking term. See - you can be useful, constructive und helpful sometime
But as we all know = scam-people are own worst enemy really
Und they even issue NIP at 800 mph
www.safespeed.org.uk/forum/viewtopic.php?t=5108
How?
ok guy's looks like i'm fu%$k because i didn't no about the street light thing of 200mtrs. shame on me even though i passed my test 20 years ago i'm sure they didn't mention that 1, still stinks though with no signe post's. that's my 1st speeding fine since getting caught doing 128 on the m1 last year in my 911, 6 week ban and no point's for that 1 so guess i'll just sulk and take this 1 on the chin shame though cus thats a 120 mph bend where the camera was, maybe they've gave me 3 points for going to slow lol. now that would be nice.
If no signs, then speed limit on the road you turned onto is the same as that on the dual carriageway.
A 30mph limit cannot be defined simply by the presence of "regularly spaced" street lights if the preceding limit is not 30. An initial sign is required to indicate the change of limit.
As said by others, check very carefully for the presence or absence of correct signage.
Streaky
A 30mph limit cannot be defined simply by the presence of "regularly spaced" street lights if the preceding limit is not 30. An initial sign is required to indicate the change of limit.
As said by others, check very carefully for the presence or absence of correct signage.
Streaky
streaky said:
If no signs, then speed limit on the road you turned onto is the same as that on the dual carriageway.
A 30mph limit cannot be defined simply by the presence of "regularly spaced" street lights if the preceding limit is not 30. An initial sign is required to indicate the change of limit.
As said by others, check very carefully for the presence or absence of correct signage.
Streaky
That is not my reading of RTRA -- the exemption for incorrect signage has a specific exemption for restricted roads, but I do not have a full copy of the Act to check in. There is still a requirement to sign -- just not clear whether there is an exemption from enforcement as well.
As I see it:
Section 81 (1) Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 makes it unlawful to drive on a 'restricted road' at a speed of more than 30 mph.
A 'restricted road' (pure) for the purposes of the above limit is if there is provided on it a system of street lighting furnished bt lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart.(Sect 82(2))
Section 85 (1) and (2) Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 deals with obligation to sign speed limits and states:
For the purpose of securing that adequate guidance is given to drivers of motor vehicles as to whether any, and if so what, limit of speed is to be observed on any road, it shall be the duty of the Secretary of State, in the case of a trunk road, or Local Authority for other than Trunk Road to erect and maintain the prescribed traffic signs in such positions as may be requisite for that purpose.
Notice the reference to 'speed to be observed on ANY ROAD' which would include a 'restricted road'
But with the section of the Act (Section 85(4)) it goes on to state:
Where no system of street lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart is provided on a road, but a limit of speed is to be observed on the road, a person shall not be convicted of driving a motor vehicle on the road at a speed exceeding the limit unless the limit is indicated by means of such traffic signs as are mentioned in subsection (1) or subsection (2) above
Now this to me now takes out the need for a pure 'restricted road' to be signed as a 30 mph limit to ensure a prosecution can take place.
Ah but you say coming into my Town at the start of the streetlighting there is a 30 sign and repeaters. What this means or indicates is that by using the powers under Section 82(2) the Powers that Be have by Order removed the status of 'restricted road'(pure) and imposed a limit under a Traffic Speed Regulation Order. Likewise they can by Order impose a section of road to be a 'restricted road'(not pure). Any offence is then contrary to Section 84 and not 81. In doing so they are then obliged to sign and place repeaters either limit or NSL signs at intervals along its length and in accordance with Traffic Signs and General Directions 2002.
dvd
Section 81 (1) Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 makes it unlawful to drive on a 'restricted road' at a speed of more than 30 mph.
A 'restricted road' (pure) for the purposes of the above limit is if there is provided on it a system of street lighting furnished bt lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart.(Sect 82(2))
Section 85 (1) and (2) Road Traffic Regulation Act 1984 deals with obligation to sign speed limits and states:
For the purpose of securing that adequate guidance is given to drivers of motor vehicles as to whether any, and if so what, limit of speed is to be observed on any road, it shall be the duty of the Secretary of State, in the case of a trunk road, or Local Authority for other than Trunk Road to erect and maintain the prescribed traffic signs in such positions as may be requisite for that purpose.
Notice the reference to 'speed to be observed on ANY ROAD' which would include a 'restricted road'
But with the section of the Act (Section 85(4)) it goes on to state:
Where no system of street lighting furnished by means of lamps placed not more than 200 yards apart is provided on a road, but a limit of speed is to be observed on the road, a person shall not be convicted of driving a motor vehicle on the road at a speed exceeding the limit unless the limit is indicated by means of such traffic signs as are mentioned in subsection (1) or subsection (2) above
Now this to me now takes out the need for a pure 'restricted road' to be signed as a 30 mph limit to ensure a prosecution can take place.
Ah but you say coming into my Town at the start of the streetlighting there is a 30 sign and repeaters. What this means or indicates is that by using the powers under Section 82(2) the Powers that Be have by Order removed the status of 'restricted road'(pure) and imposed a limit under a Traffic Speed Regulation Order. Likewise they can by Order impose a section of road to be a 'restricted road'(not pure). Any offence is then contrary to Section 84 and not 81. In doing so they are then obliged to sign and place repeaters either limit or NSL signs at intervals along its length and in accordance with Traffic Signs and General Directions 2002.
dvd
Just as a general point. Most people under 35 wouldn't know what 200 yards looked like. Does it give a metres equivalenet in the act?
In the particular example given by the original poster, he states that there was signage for vehicles travelling in the opposite direction. That must be relevent in this particular case if there were no signs present for persons travelling his particular route.
I've always noted signage as you pass between different sppeed limits. In one particular location where I live, it goes from 30 to NSL to 40 mmph within 100 metres of each other!
Scott
In the particular example given by the original poster, he states that there was signage for vehicles travelling in the opposite direction. That must be relevent in this particular case if there were no signs present for persons travelling his particular route.
I've always noted signage as you pass between different sppeed limits. In one particular location where I live, it goes from 30 to NSL to 40 mmph within 100 metres of each other!
Scott
I have been thinking for a while about the Metric-Imperial measurements in the Highway Code. Since everything was changed to metric a few years ago, even as far as shop keepers refusing to change and being prosecuted for selling in imperial weights. Does this not go as far as the H/C. Any sign or distance stated could be ignored because they are no longer legal, ie street light distance. Could be worth mentioning in a court case
DVD - the initial speed limit signs are there on lit restricted roads (pure in your terms) as the SoS or LA is required to put them there by law.
My reading of that is that if they fail to do so, then there is no get-out for the speeding motorist, unlike unlit roads or derestricted roads, where correct signage is necessary for conviction.
Notice also that where sign is missing or incorrect, the limit is not NSL, but is in fact unenforcable, so those poorly presented and hidden NSL signs which are increasingly common (cynic in me suggest so that people think they are still in 30 / 40 limit, and don't notice increase) actually prevent any enforcement of the speed limit on that section of road.
Now that's my reading of it -- I'd be interested to see that tested.
My reading of that is that if they fail to do so, then there is no get-out for the speeding motorist, unlike unlit roads or derestricted roads, where correct signage is necessary for conviction.
Notice also that where sign is missing or incorrect, the limit is not NSL, but is in fact unenforcable, so those poorly presented and hidden NSL signs which are increasingly common (cynic in me suggest so that people think they are still in 30 / 40 limit, and don't notice increase) actually prevent any enforcement of the speed limit on that section of road.
Now that's my reading of it -- I'd be interested to see that tested.
I have a reference Kemp to a dated legal journal that I do not have that where a lamp is temporary missing, broken or knocked down so that at one place two lamps are more than 200 yards apart, it is suggested that a 'system of street lighting' is still proved.
For those with an extensive law library see 114 JP Jo 627
dvd
For those with an extensive law library see 114 JP Jo 627
dvd
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