Traffic police intimidation
Discussion
Anyone have an opinion on what would have been the right thing to do in the following situation?
Whilst driving today through a set of road works on a dual carriageway there was a temporary 40mph limit as the traffic was split into two single lanes, with no hard shoulder or passing areas. The area was heavily signed as a police speedcheck area and there were two gatso cameras through the section.
A traffic police car approached at speed behind me and sat very close to the rear of my vehicle. I was of course careful to keep to exactly 40mph (gps indicated), The traffic car sat with headlights on and was clearly trying to ‘push’ me to accelerate. I maintained 40mph. The second camera was at the end of the roadworks and as I approached the traffic car turned on the blue lights and sirens as I was nearing the camera and drove even closer to the rear of my car. The officer in the passenger seat was gesticulating wildly that I should be speeding up to clear the single carriageway section and allow them past. Due to the speed camera I did not and maintained 40mph. When clear I pulled over to allow them to pass. The officer was clearly annoyed and gesticulated and mouthed "words" at me whilst passing.
What should I have done, accelerated through the area and risked 6 points (maybe more) if the cameras were active? There was no space to move over until after the single carriageway restrictions? I did guess the traffic car was in a hurry and not deliberately trying to force me to speed, but whilst I am sure the traffic police can speed with impunity in certain situations, I cannot and have been told that "speed kills" and that limits are set for a reason (roadworks). I was just a little annoyed with the police behavior.
Any thoughts?
>> Edited by typevii on Wednesday 14th December 18:20
>> Edited by typevii on Wednesday 14th December 18:26
>> Edited by typevii on Wednesday 14th December 18:27
Whilst driving today through a set of road works on a dual carriageway there was a temporary 40mph limit as the traffic was split into two single lanes, with no hard shoulder or passing areas. The area was heavily signed as a police speedcheck area and there were two gatso cameras through the section.
A traffic police car approached at speed behind me and sat very close to the rear of my vehicle. I was of course careful to keep to exactly 40mph (gps indicated), The traffic car sat with headlights on and was clearly trying to ‘push’ me to accelerate. I maintained 40mph. The second camera was at the end of the roadworks and as I approached the traffic car turned on the blue lights and sirens as I was nearing the camera and drove even closer to the rear of my car. The officer in the passenger seat was gesticulating wildly that I should be speeding up to clear the single carriageway section and allow them past. Due to the speed camera I did not and maintained 40mph. When clear I pulled over to allow them to pass. The officer was clearly annoyed and gesticulated and mouthed "words" at me whilst passing.
What should I have done, accelerated through the area and risked 6 points (maybe more) if the cameras were active? There was no space to move over until after the single carriageway restrictions? I did guess the traffic car was in a hurry and not deliberately trying to force me to speed, but whilst I am sure the traffic police can speed with impunity in certain situations, I cannot and have been told that "speed kills" and that limits are set for a reason (roadworks). I was just a little annoyed with the police behavior.
Any thoughts?
>> Edited by typevii on Wednesday 14th December 18:20
>> Edited by typevii on Wednesday 14th December 18:26
>> Edited by typevii on Wednesday 14th December 18:27
There's a thread somewhere that covers this and the basic advice is don't speed or cross red lights even when approached by an emergency vehicle on a call - you'll still get the points (as sadly people can attest)...
Here you go
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=193570&am
Here you go
http://pistonheads.com/gassing/topic.asp?t=193570&am
Yep, good old days you would have used your common sense and floored it to get out of his way then back to normal speed.
These days you don't have permission to use your common sense. So you stick to the limit and then report the officer trying to save lives to the nearest tree hugging form filler who will exercise their lack of discretion all over the poor bugger.
Had you been flashed you would have had no leg to stand on when the NIP arrived.
These days you don't have permission to use your common sense. So you stick to the limit and then report the officer trying to save lives to the nearest tree hugging form filler who will exercise their lack of discretion all over the poor bugger.
Had you been flashed you would have had no leg to stand on when the NIP arrived.
As founder members of the SCP they reap what they sow.
The correct course of action for anyone who is following too close is to ensure that you add their "missing" safe breaking distance to your safe braking distance so that you can slow both cars to a stop safetly in the event of an emergency.
Personal choice but you can also make a formal complaint at your nearest police station.
The correct course of action for anyone who is following too close is to ensure that you add their "missing" safe breaking distance to your safe braking distance so that you can slow both cars to a stop safetly in the event of an emergency.
Personal choice but you can also make a formal complaint at your nearest police station.
I was going to take their reg but decided that jotting down the number whilst driving may be dangerous (not sure though, as I was not speeding, so it would probably have been ok to fumble around for my notepad and then write the number whilst driving). Anyway I have resolved to be more laid back about any motoring incidents and to let them pass me by (whilst not speeding), its just not worth the stress and annoyance, even when it involves our highly trained police force.
I felt a little guilty as the thought crossed my mind that they could have been rushing to an RTA. Luckily though the guilt didnt last long as the thought of six points, a hefty fine then losing my job, house etc quickly tempered my guilt and I remembered that in todays Britain its every man for himself.
It makes me so sad to think like this, but bitter experience has showed me the way.
Oh well, another disillusioned citizen who wouldnt lift a finger to help the police, its the little things that all add up. Such a shame. Funny, as my father was a BiB, so I was bought up to respect and trust them, how times change.
>> Edited by typevii on Wednesday 14th December 19:39
I felt a little guilty as the thought crossed my mind that they could have been rushing to an RTA. Luckily though the guilt didnt last long as the thought of six points, a hefty fine then losing my job, house etc quickly tempered my guilt and I remembered that in todays Britain its every man for himself.
It makes me so sad to think like this, but bitter experience has showed me the way.
Oh well, another disillusioned citizen who wouldnt lift a finger to help the police, its the little things that all add up. Such a shame. Funny, as my father was a BiB, so I was bought up to respect and trust them, how times change.
>> Edited by typevii on Wednesday 14th December 19:39
Mad isnt it ! I always move over for Blues and twos but most people just seem to freeze. But following recent judgements I would agree that you now just have to stick to the speed limit regardless then pull over down the road when its safe, and never go through a red light for any reason. I mean I agree with that other thread that lives could be at stake, but why should you have to pay a fine, get points on your licence and have your insurance premium increased for assisting the Emergency services in responding ?. The world has truly gone mad.
Having said all that, I have never had a problem moving over, making room or getting out of the way for blues and twos in good time before they reach me - I seem to be one of the few people that actually looks behind me, can spot a blue light, have good enough hearing to hear the siren then use my brain to do something about it .....
Soapbox mode off lol
Having said all that, I have never had a problem moving over, making room or getting out of the way for blues and twos in good time before they reach me - I seem to be one of the few people that actually looks behind me, can spot a blue light, have good enough hearing to hear the siren then use my brain to do something about it .....
Soapbox mode off lol
My phone kit allows me to take recordings, so I would have recorded the Police car's registration number and accelerated away. I would have fought the NIP all the way and got hold of the traffic officers as witnesses. I don't say that you should have done anything like this and I understand why you did as you did.
Jamesson, it's good to get the offical point of view because I think sometimes drivers flap a bit when a siren and lights appear and make more of a hazard by doing bizarre manoeuvres thinking it's helpful. Even if you've spotted the police car very early there's not much you can do if you're already in a single lane roadwork situation.
jamesson said:
Doesn't help us boys in blue when some of us drive like this. I once sat with a colleague who drove right behind this old lady in an effort to get her to speed up, despite the fact she was clearly a bit nervous about being followed by a polie car. I told him to back off, citing my reason, and he said she shouldn't be driving if she can't put her foot down, despite already driving at the speed limit!
So, on behalf of my colleagues, I apologise for what appears to be inconsiderate driving (victormeldrew - it's not even CLOSE to dangerous driving) and applaud you for sticking to your guns. The rule is get out of the way of emergency service vehicles, but only when it is safe to do so, and without exceeding the speed limit or passing through red traffic signals.
It's easy to bash police drivers - and I realise examples like this don't exactly help our cause - but please try to remember that the vast majority of police drivers (certainly the traffic cops) are very very good behind the wheel and have levels of training Joe Public rarely enjoys.
Most of us are good guys and are there to help you when you need us.
It's a shame we can't excercise discretion any more. In the pre SCP days most of us would have accelerated out of the way, I'm sure a kind of unwritten gentlemans agreement was in force. It certainly wouldn't hurt to feed back public reaction to scameras to the powers that be.
jamesson said:
I apologise for what appears to be inconsiderate driving (victormeldrew - it's not even CLOSE to dangerous driving)
rant on:
Quite the opposite mate. From the info below, it appears that the standard of driving was not 'below' that to be expected of a careful and competant driver, but 'far below' that standard. I know someone who was prosecuted for DD for *extremely* close tailgating on the m'way (at about 50 mph). Just because they are police class one trained (or whatever), doesn't give them reaction times closer to a fighter pilot. Also, if they were driving right up the tail pipes of the car in front w/o the blues and twos on, then that certainly answers the question regarding the mentaility (or not) of the occupants of the car. It could therefore be suggested that the blues got switched on only to facilitate a pass of the car in front, or cos the occupants wanted to travel faster than the pedestrian 40mph we are subjected to in 9 month 'roadworks' situations these days...
rant off:
time for an ovaltine.
>> Edited by fergus on Wednesday 14th December 21:17
Good to hear from Jammesson, and the original thread was absolutely correct, these days common sense has little hold in front of a well past his sell by date dodgering old judge.
I am afraid that even if I was at a red light, I would not move for any emergency vehicles whatsoever, not worth the resulting hassel these days, sad as it may be.
I am afraid that even if I was at a red light, I would not move for any emergency vehicles whatsoever, not worth the resulting hassel these days, sad as it may be.
So, just to step into the defense of the BiB in this situation, I can excuse them sitting right up my arse through the contraflow, who knows, maybe they were inexperienced, the reason they were in a rush was something that got them over excited, whatever. I did what I thought was correct and stuck to the limit. Maybe most drivers never look in their mirror and so the only way to get attention is to get really close and let them know you need to pass (even if the road dictates you cannot).
What really got me annoyed was that they put the blues and siren on at towards the end of the contraflow (maybe just to make sure I had seen them) when there was clearly a gatso (maybe they didnt see it), I did, and my road angel was beeping away. They were clearly gesticulating for me to speed up, and I was pointing (as best you can) to the gatso ahead.
If at this point they had backed off and acknowledged the gatso, fair enough. They did not, and as they passed the officer in the passenger seat had the window down and was clearly mouthing something and gesticulating.
Jamesson, agree, in many situations its farcical the way some people react to a blue light and siren, I have seen people just stop! I had noticed the blues many miles in the distance, but was already in the contraflow, so nothing could be done. Also I had no intention of knocking the BiB or their driving in general. Like all things its only the bad that gets noticed and rarely do we see a post congratulating the BiB on great driving etc.
What really got me annoyed was that they put the blues and siren on at towards the end of the contraflow (maybe just to make sure I had seen them) when there was clearly a gatso (maybe they didnt see it), I did, and my road angel was beeping away. They were clearly gesticulating for me to speed up, and I was pointing (as best you can) to the gatso ahead.
If at this point they had backed off and acknowledged the gatso, fair enough. They did not, and as they passed the officer in the passenger seat had the window down and was clearly mouthing something and gesticulating.
Jamesson, agree, in many situations its farcical the way some people react to a blue light and siren, I have seen people just stop! I had noticed the blues many miles in the distance, but was already in the contraflow, so nothing could be done. Also I had no intention of knocking the BiB or their driving in general. Like all things its only the bad that gets noticed and rarely do we see a post congratulating the BiB on great driving etc.
Wouldn't you be obstructing a Police officer in the execution of his duty if you didn't follow his directions?
If it was a traffic car, it's likely that the whole thing is on the in-car camera along with the verbal abuse you were given. You might not have been doing what they wanted but there's no excuse for mouthing abuse at you. It's officers like that who give all a bad name and personally I think it should be followed up.
Scott
If it was a traffic car, it's likely that the whole thing is on the in-car camera along with the verbal abuse you were given. You might not have been doing what they wanted but there's no excuse for mouthing abuse at you. It's officers like that who give all a bad name and personally I think it should be followed up.
Scott
jamesson said:
fergus - your mate sounds very unlucky. I'd still say inconsiderate rather than dangerous, but that's just my opinion and I certainly respect yours. What I WOULD like to say - and I know it's off thread - is congratulations on your choice of cars/bikes. Clearly a man of taste!
o/t: thanks squire! about to add a Caterham to the fleet on monday!!
jamesson said:You do surprise me. I suppose that's because the advanced driver training induced precognitive powers then? Because if anyone else sat on someones bumper and drove in an aggressive and intimidating fashion they would be looking at a ticket for DD without question.
... (victormeldrew - it's not even CLOSE to dangerous driving) ...
Do yourself a favour. Some of us have been round the block a few times, we know what people have been cautioned for, we know what people have been summonsed and convicted for. To suggest that driving of that standard is "not even CLOSE to dangerous driving" is disingenious at best, hypocritical at worst.
Sorry, just spotted you other post. Is there an offence of "inconsiderate driving"? Driving without due care and attention would have been pretty close, but doesn't exist any more does it? Since it was done with intention it was hardly "careless", so "dangerous" is about all that's left isn't it?
Of course you're entitled to your opinion, as are we all; I'd just ask this: would you be prepared to act as expert witness in defence of any PH'er unfortunate (and yes, stupid) enough to be brought before the magistrates on a dangerous driving charge for tailgating (in roadworks no less). This would be a valuable "get out of jail" card (possibly literaly), as the magistrates will almost always believe the word of a BiB over us proles.
>> Edited by victormeldrew on Wednesday 14th December 23:15
in said situation I would slow down to say 20 MPH under the speed limit and leave a massive gap between me and the Driver in front, especially nowadays with all the scamera sudden braking that goes on, to allow the tailgating w****r extra stopping distance as suggested in lots of advanced Driving manuals
matchless
matchless
purpleheadedcerb said:
Wouldn't you be obstructing a Police officer in the execution of his duty if you didn't follow his directions?
Scott
It wouldn't be obstructing a Police officer in the execution of his duty. There is plenty of case law. A Police officer cannot order you to break the law. The Eichman defence (I was only following orders) does not hold up in court.
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