Max (real world) speed to tow a trailer
Discussion
fergus said:
Although I know the max speed to tow a trailer is 60mph (as per highway code...), would any trafpols here give me a tug for doing a true (i.e. GPS) 70mph?
I suspect they would. Remember that the speed limit for towing on single carriageway NSL is 50mph. fegus said:No you can't, and very frustrating it is too. Here is my tale of woe.
Also, can I use lane 3 for overtakes (again, in the real world) - cos of the lane 2 tw@ts doing 60mph?
Personally, I think that if the load that's being towed is relatively light (i.e. sub 300kgs), then as long as the tow car is substantial and not likely to suffer from the 'tail wagging the dog', then 80-85 should be OK (assuming the trailer has good tyres fitted, that are up to the job). A braked trailer is also an advantage when towing a heavier load.... All IMHO.
85-ish is a good cuising speed when the towing vehicle is significantly heavier than the item being towed.
I was once a passenger in a combination which was the opposite of the above. At 55mph it fishtailed quite alarmingly. I asked the driver to keep the speed down, but we was eager to get back form Mallory before closing time. About 5 minutes later we were broadside across all 3 lanes of the M1, went backwards down the banking, the racecar broke free from its straps and half came off the trailer. Luckily nobody was hurt, but we needed two recovery trucks to lift both cars and trailer up the banks an onto the motorway again, where we continued as before, albeit at a rather slower pace.
Towing limits are published for a reason.
I was once a passenger in a combination which was the opposite of the above. At 55mph it fishtailed quite alarmingly. I asked the driver to keep the speed down, but we was eager to get back form Mallory before closing time. About 5 minutes later we were broadside across all 3 lanes of the M1, went backwards down the banking, the racecar broke free from its straps and half came off the trailer. Luckily nobody was hurt, but we needed two recovery trucks to lift both cars and trailer up the banks an onto the motorway again, where we continued as before, albeit at a rather slower pace.
Towing limits are published for a reason.
I use a Nissan Patrol and tow a twin axle braked trailer with a 1 tonne car on it. I tend to do 65-70mph purely because the 15mpg is even worse above that speed. It will tow faster and completely steady but what's the point? I hat that lane 3 overtaking rule. I always get stuck behind an idiot lorry driver who are overtaking a whole 1 mph faster than the vehicle in the nearside lane. 5 Minutes later they are still faffing about.
The real issue is how the trailer is set up. When I bought my first speedboat a dick head who had no brains told me that when it started snaking the best technique was to accelerate through it. This taught me not only to not listen to a word any pillock ever says about driving cos they are mostly idiots but it also taught me about setting trailers up. When I bought the boat it became bloody dangerous at 40mph and by the time I had fine tuned the balance it was stable at 115mph. During the miners strike I went past 3 van loads of police heading for a punch up with some Welsh Miners and inadvertantly passed them at 90mph on the M56 they waved fists and beeped horns. I did not fancy being on the recieving end of pre miners punch up kicking so I buggered off up to 120 and left them in my wake. The SD1 was a magnificent tow car especially after a few mods.
....... only 100 mph?........
Seriously gents, a lot of crap is broadcast by the "TopGear" programe. Anyone who knows what he is doing can quite easily tow a caravan at 80 mph in normal conditions. I have even overtaken "numties" at 110 mph" in Europe no problem with more to spare.
It's a case of:....Loading it properly and having the right long wheelbase car to tow it..
>> Edited by 8Pack on Sunday 18th December 05:54
fergus said:You have your own DVD? Having such a font of knowledge about motoring and other law alongside you in the passenger seat must give you a real advantage (and be a fascinating companion too on long journeys)
50mph on a single carriageway NSL road! Gives me time to put a DVD on!
- StreakyGot to agree with nonners/8pack/greenV8s, it is all about the tow car and the design of the trailor/caravan/whatever, and how it is loaded/fine tuned. If you have an outfit that is inherently stable even third party activity such as a passing truck, wind or dodgy camber is not going to upset it. But so many outfits are inherently unstable, that is to say they are all over the road at even modest speeds without even any outside interference to have caused it.
I am going to have a rant about stabilisers now
Folks who have an inherently unstable outfit, and a bit of a wag on at say 40-45mph, they go and put a stabiliser on, and wow! fantastic, its cured, because the wag doesnt come back until 55-60mph, and as they dont intend to go that fast, result, arent stabilisers fab. This is an accident waiting to happen, all they have done is swept the problem under the carpet.
You should only really put a stabiliser on an inherently stable outfit, in other words, if you dont need a stabiliser, you should consider having one, and then you have a terrific margin of safety. If you do need a stabiliser, you really shouldnt have one until you have fixed the problem. That headache you keep getting? well its a tumour, so taking plenty of aspirin might ease the pain, but you still have a serious problem to resolve.
The really funny and scary thing about many caravanners is that they haven't ever towed their van without one, so dont really know what their outfit really tows like, it might be OK, but it may also be not so good and could do with improvement, but how are they ever going to know? It may be a bit iffy at 50mph, but it is masked, if something goes wrong, you may keep control if you had a safe outfit with an added stabiliser margin, but with an unsafe outfit with a hidden problem, you have no margin.
Worth noting that all the high speed record attempts have largely been done without a stabiliser, except for those that were sponsored by the stabiliser manufacturers of course
I used to work in the caravan industry and have been involved in high speed stuff, and exploding tyres deliberately at high speed too, I have put a few twins on their side anyway I would always like to set an outfit up and see how it is without any stabiliser 1st, then when I am happy with it, use one.
It is amazing the differences though between one trailer and another, some tow really well, whilst others are absolute pigs. The last thing I would want to do is tow one of the latter with the problem disguised by a stabiliser. In the eighties I really used to rate Swift caravans as really good towers, best ever was the 1985 Challenger 390 which was a tiny little thing but on a twin axle Syspal chassis, very unusual. There are other makes that were abysmal, worst ever for me was the 1988 Abbey 415GT with the end toilet, at the NEC caravan show, we took 18 caravans to put on display and no-one wanted this thing on their car.
A few tips,
As bit of nosewight is no bad thing, as long as the car stays level, this is easy to achieve if the car has self levelling.
As short an overhang form the rear axle line of the car to the tow bar, big estates are usually rubbish for this, but mid sized hatchbacks are great.
Low centre of gravity, load it all low down as much as possible over the trailer axle with a bit of forward bias.
Good tyres at the right pressures.
You cannot accelerate out of a wiggle, all you will do is put more kinetic energy into a bad situation and when the fall comes, it will be bigger and more spectacular. Anyone who claims that this worked for them was just lucky, thats all.
Take the weight ratios with a pinch of salt unless you really are a numpty, it only matters if you get into serious trouble, which hopefully the above will help to reduce in the 1st place. Anyway, how can you tow a trailer with a car on it and keep to 85% or less? I had a nice Christmas one year with a 21cwt Challenger 520 on the back of a 20cwt 1.6 Cavalier, it towed just fine as the whole outfit just happened to be inherently stable, I had the pick of about eighty caravans off the pitch, I chose this because despite being heavier than the car, I knew it was a fantastic tower. I would rather do this than tow a 14cwt caravan with a 20cwt car when the outfit was inherently unstable.
A big hefty saloon is better than a big hefty 4x4, for exactly the same reasons that a big hefty saloon is dynamically better than a big hefty 4x4 when it all goes tits up on the motorway when there isnt a trailer involved. Unless you are towing really heavy stuff, which probably only a 4X4 could handle anyway, like an outside display unit as big as an artic'.
You really should stick to the speed limits, 80-100mph is perfectly achievable and maybe even safe, but its not big and its not clever on the public road. (not aimed at you 8pack )
Come on then folks, tell me i'm talking cack
>> Edited by Balmoral Green on Sunday 18th December 12:07
I am going to have a rant about stabilisers now
Folks who have an inherently unstable outfit, and a bit of a wag on at say 40-45mph, they go and put a stabiliser on, and wow! fantastic, its cured, because the wag doesnt come back until 55-60mph, and as they dont intend to go that fast, result, arent stabilisers fab. This is an accident waiting to happen, all they have done is swept the problem under the carpet.
You should only really put a stabiliser on an inherently stable outfit, in other words, if you dont need a stabiliser, you should consider having one, and then you have a terrific margin of safety. If you do need a stabiliser, you really shouldnt have one until you have fixed the problem. That headache you keep getting? well its a tumour, so taking plenty of aspirin might ease the pain, but you still have a serious problem to resolve.
The really funny and scary thing about many caravanners is that they haven't ever towed their van without one, so dont really know what their outfit really tows like, it might be OK, but it may also be not so good and could do with improvement, but how are they ever going to know? It may be a bit iffy at 50mph, but it is masked, if something goes wrong, you may keep control if you had a safe outfit with an added stabiliser margin, but with an unsafe outfit with a hidden problem, you have no margin.
Worth noting that all the high speed record attempts have largely been done without a stabiliser, except for those that were sponsored by the stabiliser manufacturers of course
I used to work in the caravan industry and have been involved in high speed stuff, and exploding tyres deliberately at high speed too, I have put a few twins on their side anyway
I would always like to set an outfit up and see how it is without any stabiliser 1st, then when I am happy with it, use one. It is amazing the differences though between one trailer and another, some tow really well, whilst others are absolute pigs. The last thing I would want to do is tow one of the latter with the problem disguised by a stabiliser. In the eighties I really used to rate Swift caravans as really good towers, best ever was the 1985 Challenger 390 which was a tiny little thing but on a twin axle Syspal chassis, very unusual. There are other makes that were abysmal, worst ever for me was the 1988 Abbey 415GT with the end toilet, at the NEC caravan show, we took 18 caravans to put on display and no-one wanted this thing on their car.
A few tips,
As bit of nosewight is no bad thing, as long as the car stays level, this is easy to achieve if the car has self levelling.
As short an overhang form the rear axle line of the car to the tow bar, big estates are usually rubbish for this, but mid sized hatchbacks are great.
Low centre of gravity, load it all low down as much as possible over the trailer axle with a bit of forward bias.
Good tyres at the right pressures.
You cannot accelerate out of a wiggle, all you will do is put more kinetic energy into a bad situation and when the fall comes, it will be bigger and more spectacular. Anyone who claims that this worked for them was just lucky, thats all.
Take the weight ratios with a pinch of salt unless you really are a numpty, it only matters if you get into serious trouble, which hopefully the above will help to reduce in the 1st place. Anyway, how can you tow a trailer with a car on it and keep to 85% or less? I had a nice Christmas one year with a 21cwt Challenger 520 on the back of a 20cwt 1.6 Cavalier, it towed just fine as the whole outfit just happened to be inherently stable, I had the pick of about eighty caravans off the pitch, I chose this because despite being heavier than the car, I knew it was a fantastic tower. I would rather do this than tow a 14cwt caravan with a 20cwt car when the outfit was inherently unstable.
A big hefty saloon is better than a big hefty 4x4, for exactly the same reasons that a big hefty saloon is dynamically better than a big hefty 4x4 when it all goes tits up on the motorway when there isnt a trailer involved. Unless you are towing really heavy stuff, which probably only a 4X4 could handle anyway, like an outside display unit as big as an artic'.
You really should stick to the speed limits, 80-100mph is perfectly achievable and maybe even safe, but its not big and its not clever on the public road. (not aimed at you 8pack
) Come on then folks, tell me i'm talking cack
>> Edited by Balmoral Green on Sunday 18th December 12:07
Come on then folks, tell me i'm talking cack
>> Edited by Balmoral Green on Sunday 18th December 12:07[/quote]
Agree with everything you said except talking from experience i find that accelerating when you get a bit of a wiggle does help braking certainly doesnt because as the car tips forward under braking and the trailer is on the end of a wiggle it can make the trailer jacknife round result:- accident have actually seen this happen with a caravan and a discovery on the M6. If i had to give advise on this i would suggest accelerate and keep the vehicle as straight as possible. Best piece of advise would be for people get some sort of training before towing (once saw a caravan in bits all over M62 ther was to much debris for a caravan looks like the owner was using the caravan as a box van)IMHO
>> Edited by Balmoral Green on Sunday 18th December 12:07[/quote]
Agree with everything you said except talking from experience i find that accelerating when you get a bit of a wiggle does help braking certainly doesnt because as the car tips forward under braking and the trailer is on the end of a wiggle it can make the trailer jacknife round result:- accident have actually seen this happen with a caravan and a discovery on the M6. If i had to give advise on this i would suggest accelerate and keep the vehicle as straight as possible. Best piece of advise would be for people get some sort of training before towing (once saw a caravan in bits all over M62 ther was to much debris for a caravan looks like the owner was using the caravan as a box van)IMHO
practicalcaravan.com said:
SNAKING
Snaking is when the caravan sways from side to side during towing – it is a real-life example of the tail wagging the dog. It often happens to badly matched or poorly loaded outfits when towing at speed (especially downhill), or when passing or being passed by large vehicles. Once it starts, it is hard to stop. research by Bath University confirms the view that trying to accelerate out of snake will only make it worse. They say that you should lift your foot off the accelerator and allow the engine to act as its own brake. At the same time, loosen your grip on the steering wheel, and allow the steering to right itself.
I think you got lucky
Although I can see how in theory it would work, providing that the instability was caused by a third party force which was removed (passing truck), and that the outfit itself was inherently stable and not wagging just because it was crap. I reckon you would need a lot of initial grunt though, to yank it straight without hardly putting any extra speed on. But then, there are also types of car crash where you might be better off without a seat belt, but I think I will continue to wear mine.
paul.a said:
Come on then folks, tell me i'm talking cack
Agree with everything you said except talking from experience i find that accelerating when you get a bit of a wiggle does help braking certainly doesnt because as the car tips forward under braking and the trailer is on the end of a wiggle it can make the trailer jacknife round result:- accident have actually seen this happen with a caravan and a discovery on the M6. If i had to give advise on this i would suggest accelerate and keep the vehicle as straight as possible. Best piece of advise would be for people get some sort of training before towing (once saw a caravan in bits all over M62 ther was to much debris for a caravan looks like the owner was using the caravan as a box van)IMHO
[/quote] You see people like you are just so
dangerous, because you clearly have no knowlege of the subject. Freedom of speech is one thing but you should not be allowed to say this shit cos its utter bollox. Please stop, cos you will kill someone by advising them in this way. Never never never never accelerate out of a snake. If you get lucky and its uphill and caused by a truck then maybe you will get away with it. If a serious snake takes hold then it will drag a vehicle accross all 3 lanes of a Motorway and then flip it. The only chance you have of saving a terminal snake is to rapidly fling the towing vehicle in a following direction and then brake hard in whatever the direction the trailer is going. Releasing the brakes and contolling the direction followed by more hard braking will eventually bring the unstable vehicle to a halt. Accelerating will just make you crash in the end. Please dont reply and disagree with me because people read this stuff and might die. You kill yourself if you want to but keep your ignorance to yourself.Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff