One road closed, and the whole of Gloucester gridlocked
Discussion
Yep, am stuck here at work because, apparently, a woman has been airlifted to hospital after hitting a tree) on the Highnam (sp!) road,closed both ways! so I'm stuck at work because the wife has spent the last hour going nowhere coming from Gloucester, to where I am 6 miles away!
Again, why the hell does it take all darn day for the cops to sort things out, this crash happened hours ago, but the road is still closed, so everywhere in gridlock!
>> Edited by chris watton on Tuesday 20th December 18:41
Again, why the hell does it take all darn day for the cops to sort things out, this crash happened hours ago, but the road is still closed, so everywhere in gridlock!
>> Edited by chris watton on Tuesday 20th December 18:41
jeremyc said:
A48 blocked both ways at A40 junction
Nightmare! Still waiting at work, now 17.49, finished at 5!
The police are required to investigate life threatening / fatal collisions to an extremely high level - technically to the same standard as a murder enquiry. The rules they have to follow are basically the murder ones slightly rewritten.
The police have to do this correctly or explain to the Coroner at court why they haven't done something. The levels of evidence required are extreme and it does sometimes take hours to gain. Tiny marks and scuffs on the road are significant and anything driving over the scene can cause real problems in being able to work out how something occurred - or at least to prove it sufficiently in court. The cause of an accident is sometimes 'obvious' but proving it still takes time.
The officers do their work as quickly as they can but by the time photos and loads of measurements have been taken time goes by. I wish it could be done quicker because it's what I do and it's extremely tiring when you've been somewhere for hours and hours. The road has to remain shut as well for the safety of those investigating it. Any small opening for traffic usually makes the scene very dangerous as car drivers have a habit of not looking at the road and driving through cones, etc straight at the officers !
Please bear in mind we are told to investigate to this level - it is not something we have decided just to p*ss off all the motorists nearby. Having said that, if your loved one, son, daughter or close relative was involved in a serious or fatal collision I am sure you - like I - would want the police to do a thorough job of finding out how / why they died or were seriously injured.
The police have to do this correctly or explain to the Coroner at court why they haven't done something. The levels of evidence required are extreme and it does sometimes take hours to gain. Tiny marks and scuffs on the road are significant and anything driving over the scene can cause real problems in being able to work out how something occurred - or at least to prove it sufficiently in court. The cause of an accident is sometimes 'obvious' but proving it still takes time.
The officers do their work as quickly as they can but by the time photos and loads of measurements have been taken time goes by. I wish it could be done quicker because it's what I do and it's extremely tiring when you've been somewhere for hours and hours. The road has to remain shut as well for the safety of those investigating it. Any small opening for traffic usually makes the scene very dangerous as car drivers have a habit of not looking at the road and driving through cones, etc straight at the officers !
Please bear in mind we are told to investigate to this level - it is not something we have decided just to p*ss off all the motorists nearby. Having said that, if your loved one, son, daughter or close relative was involved in a serious or fatal collision I am sure you - like I - would want the police to do a thorough job of finding out how / why they died or were seriously injured.
This is a relatively modern phenomenon. There appear to be a number of reasons for it, one might be the concept of obtaining "closure" for the relatives of the deceased; but I do feel that another is simply "because we can". Now, I don't mean: "because we can close the road and gridlock a city", but: "because we have the technology to investigate to an increasingly minute level of detail."
What seems to get lost in the technical excellence and "purity" of some such investigations is that the Law of Diminishing Returns applies.
Taking a recent example where thousands of commuters had their Friday night journey home disrupted by a suicide, the following sequence of events occurred:
The person committed suicide on the railway line. The BTP were called and briefly assessed the situation. They applied what is now an accepted CYA rule - "treat as murder". An appropriate entry is made in the log and the investigation is turned over to the local force. After a delay, local force turns out (in force) and has to wait for confirmation that power is off and train movements have stopped before venturing out to inspect the body. SIO makes an entry that he is treating as murder (CYA again). By now, large numbers are building up on terminus platforms and hundreds of people are trapped on trains on both sides of the scene. Investigation continues for another two hours, before SIO declares it a suicide - which was apparently blindingly obvious from the start.
However, with train crews out of position the passengers are still trapped at various terminii. Trains arrive but have no platforms as these are occupied by carriages waiting for crews. Some crews on Up trains decline to work overtime. Passengers are still trapped. Some trains do depart, not all reach their destination. Some passengers are decanted off their train with only half of their journey completed ... and with little in the way of available alterative transport arranged (mostly taxis).
Yes, I was one of those caught up in the "incident". My journey home took nearly six hours! And all because someone committed suicide.
It's about time we started to apply the "Vulcan rule" - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one".
Streaky
What seems to get lost in the technical excellence and "purity" of some such investigations is that the Law of Diminishing Returns applies.
Taking a recent example where thousands of commuters had their Friday night journey home disrupted by a suicide, the following sequence of events occurred:
The person committed suicide on the railway line. The BTP were called and briefly assessed the situation. They applied what is now an accepted CYA rule - "treat as murder". An appropriate entry is made in the log and the investigation is turned over to the local force. After a delay, local force turns out (in force) and has to wait for confirmation that power is off and train movements have stopped before venturing out to inspect the body. SIO makes an entry that he is treating as murder (CYA again). By now, large numbers are building up on terminus platforms and hundreds of people are trapped on trains on both sides of the scene. Investigation continues for another two hours, before SIO declares it a suicide - which was apparently blindingly obvious from the start.
However, with train crews out of position the passengers are still trapped at various terminii. Trains arrive but have no platforms as these are occupied by carriages waiting for crews. Some crews on Up trains decline to work overtime. Passengers are still trapped. Some trains do depart, not all reach their destination. Some passengers are decanted off their train with only half of their journey completed ... and with little in the way of available alterative transport arranged (mostly taxis).
Yes, I was one of those caught up in the "incident". My journey home took nearly six hours! And all because someone committed suicide.
It's about time we started to apply the "Vulcan rule" - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one".
Streaky
streaky said:
This is a relatively modern phenomenon. There appear to be a number of reasons for it, one might be the concept of obtaining "closure" for the relatives of the deceased; but I do feel that another is simply "because we can". Now, I don't mean: "because we can close the road and gridlock a city", but: "because we have the technology to investigate to an increasingly minute level of detail."
What seems to get lost in the technical excellence and "purity" of some such investigations is that the Law of Diminishing Returns applies.
Taking a recent example where thousands of commuters had their Friday night journey home disrupted by a suicide, the following sequence of events occurred:
The person committed suicide on the railway line. The BTP were called and briefly assessed the situation. They applied what is now an accepted CYA rule - "treat as murder". An appropriate entry is made in the log and the investigation is turned over to the local force. After a delay, local force turns out (in force) and has to wait for confirmation that power is off and train movements have stopped before venturing out to inspect the body. SIO makes an entry that he is treating as murder (CYA again). By now, large numbers are building up on terminus platforms and hundreds of people are trapped on trains on both sides of the scene. Investigation continues for another two hours, before SIO declares it a suicide - which was apparently blindingly obvious from the start.
However, with train crews out of position the passengers are still trapped at various terminii. Trains arrive but have no platforms as these are occupied by carriages waiting for crews. Some crews on Up trains decline to work overtime. Passengers are still trapped. Some trains do depart, not all reach their destination. Some passengers are decanted off their train with only half of their journey completed ... and with little in the way of available alterative transport arranged (mostly taxis).
Yes, I was one of those caught up in the "incident". My journey home took nearly six hours! And all because someone committed suicide.
It's about time we started to apply the "Vulcan rule" - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one".
Streaky
I'm so glad I'm out of all that, every day.
It's just more red tape, that's all.
streaky said:
It's about time we started to apply the "Vulcan rule" - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one".
Streaky
I realise it is very sad for the family, and I would feel the same too, but, I agree totally with the last statement, they certainly use that logic on the continent, I have seen it in action!
Causing a city to go into virtual gridlock is wholly unacceptable, I believe it wasnt even a fatality (could be wrong.)
Also, I hear Police say 'you'd want the same', well, not really, what about if some scrote stabs a loved on in the street, or a heart attack victim can't get treatment, because no medical services can get through the gridlock????????
>> Edited by chris watton on Wednesday 21st December 09:25
So I ask this, all these people saying the needs of the many outweigh etc etc.
There you are, a beloved has gone to meet their Maker. Eye witness evidence that someone else was driving like a prat, yet no further action possible because the scene wasn't examined properly to avoid a traffic jam.
Would you as a bereaved relative either;
1) actually accept this was it and move on, or would you
2) have a rant at ineffective bib?
Honest answers only please.
I suspect most would say 1) but actually do 2)
There you are, a beloved has gone to meet their Maker. Eye witness evidence that someone else was driving like a prat, yet no further action possible because the scene wasn't examined properly to avoid a traffic jam.
Would you as a bereaved relative either;
1) actually accept this was it and move on, or would you
2) have a rant at ineffective bib?
Honest answers only please.
I suspect most would say 1) but actually do 2)
chris watton said:
It's about time we started to apply the "Vulcan rule" - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one".
Streaky
I realise it is very sad for the family, and I would feel the same too, but, I agree totally with the last statement,
Me too. They should chuck a tarpaulin over the corpse and leave it there until the rush hour is over. Buggering 20,000 commuters about because of one selfish sod who decides to commit suicide with a train instead of booze & pills.
zumbruk said:
It's about time we started to apply the "Vulcan rule" - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one".
Streaky
I realise it is very sad for the family, and I would feel the same too, but, I agree totally with the last statement,
Me too. They should chuck a tarpaulin over the corpse and leave it there until the rush hour is over. Buggering 20,000 commuters about because of one selfish sod who decides to commit suicide with a train instead of booze & pills.
As I pointed out in my previous post, it could put more lives at risk, if the whole city and surrounding area is in gridlock, I ask again, what happens to victims of crime or heart attacks if the ambulance's and police cant get there in time, and they die as a direct result of the authorities using their wisdon to close main roads?chris watton said:
It's about time we started to apply the "Vulcan rule" - "the needs of the many outweigh the needs of the one".
Streaky
I realise it is very sad for the family, and I would feel the same too, but, I agree totally with the last statement,
Me too. They should chuck a tarpaulin over the corpse and leave it there until the rush hour is over. Buggering 20,000 commuters about because of one selfish sod who decides to commit suicide with a train instead of booze & pills.
Exactly. See http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/beds/bucks/herts/ In this case you could even make the case that closing the road caused the second fatality.
A 40-year-old lorry driver from Essex was pronounced dead at the scene when his wagon ploughed into a group of stationary cars stuck in traffic caused by the first accident.
I know you should be capable of dealing with a queue of traffic, but it is a hazard that might not have been there but for the closure.
>> Edited by IanReid on Wednesday 21st December 10:58
>> Edited by IanReid on Wednesday 21st December 10:59
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