Worn out / illegible white painted road signs

[edc]

Using the logic of the worn out paint of yellow lines, are painted road markings indicating a left turn valid? At this particular junction there is no road sign post with red circle (prohibiting a turn) nor a white arrow on blue circle (indicating which way one must turn) but merely a pained white left arrow much of which is worn away?

[7db]

The arrow need the words "turn left" "turn right" or "ahead only" to be a signal which must be complied with (S36). It is then enough without further signage.

[edc]

7db said:

The arrow need the words "turn left" "turn right" or "ahead only" to be a signal which must be complied with (S36). It is then enough without further signage.

Ok. This wording is in place but most of it is unreadable as the paint has largely worn away - does that make any difference?

You might read: "T r L t"

[Dwight VanDriver]

7db

The left road marking under discussion is diagram 1036.1 - vehiclular traffic must turn left.

TSGD 2002 Reg 10 lists those signs to which Section 36 RTA 88 applies (fail to conform to Traffic Sign - NOIP - fine and points)

I know my eyes are old but cannot see 1036.1 listed as such a sign. You may have reference of an amendment?

It will be the preceeding upright signage present i.e Diagram 609 that will satisfy Reg 10.

But having said that 1036 etc will have been laid to support a non endorseable offence under a Traffic Order and opens the arguement that if the sign is not as shown in TSGD then argument that the Order cannot be enforced.

dvd

[7db]

DVD -
Just checked my facts, and oh what foolish day that I would contradict you.

You are right - 1036.1 does not in itself constitute a sign that must be obeyed -- however it may only be placed where there is a statutory restriction on traffic (Gen. Directions 7) -- ie it indicates that there is a compulsion to turn left, but it is the upright sign (as you so rightly point out) which gives the compulsion.

So one should take the presence of 1036.1 as compulsion to turn left, but conviction not possible in the absence of upright sign.

[edc]

Thanks guys, but I don't understand the implications of what you have written.

[7db]

The white paint on the road is not an order to be obeyed. However, there will be an upright which *is* to be obeyed.

If the upright is missing, the order stands, but you can't be convicted of disobeying.



However, I'm sure DVD will approve or correct...

DVD - how does the law allow for the lane markings in three lanes, say - where does the upright go?

[edc]

Ok, thanks again! No upright signs and only the worn out paint on the road at present.

[7db]

I'd turn left, if I were on that road.

[Flat in Fifth]

[redacted]

[Dwight VanDriver]

>>>>>DVD - how does the law allow for the lane markings in three lanes, say - where does the upright go?<<<<<<<

A. Where the top of the Xmas tree enters the the Fairy........

Just to add more to the confusion it would have to be ascertained if a Traffic Regulation Order has been made in which traffic are directed to do certain things i.e. No left turn etc. If made then sign 1036.1 IMHO has relevance as it will have been placed in responce to a direction, prohibition etc mentioned earlier. The offence would be failing to conform to the Order in which mention may be made of what the signing has to be. If it is defective opens a can of worms.

There may well be a set sequence in Traffic Management "Bible" as what should be.
If I had a copy I could make a bob or three...

Did you know that TSGD costs £40?

dvd

[7db]

TSRGD available free online here:-
www.opsi.gov.uk/si/si2002/20023113.htm

General Direction 7 indicates that 1036.1 shall only be placed to indicate the existence of an order prohibiting or restricting traffic.

Is it an offence to ignore the order, even if the signage required for the order is not a S36 sign?

[edc]

Flat in Fifth said:

Out of interest, why in this case do you think you are being asked to turn left?

Because, like a NSL of 70 at all times the road planners believe a left turn is the safest option. Like NSLs times have changed and the roads here have changed. The area is re-developed. Visibility to turn right is good and there is plenty of room to do so. The road bearing left used to be 2 ways but is now a one way system.

Upon further inspection tonight there is indeed a 'no right turn' sign but it is unreadable from the direction of travel as the sign faces the wrong way and is obscured by trees!