Highways Agency rolling roadblock

[supermono]

Yesterday I drove a/c on the M25 northern stretch around 10am-11am and passed a couple of HA rentacop wagons going my way. Going the other way, I noticed one in the middle lane waving his arm out of the window doing about 50 I estimate followed by a load of tailgating, mexican wave brakelighting vehicles for about 4 miles before the traffic started to look like it was flowing normally.

What's this all about? Someone had a brainwave about using these jokers to control vehicle speed? Supposing I passed such a HA vehicle that was lane-hogging and I didn't spot his arm out of the window, what's the offence?

Was he doing this as one of his own Bright Ideas to achieve something if so what training did he have for knowing the bunching he was causing was better than whatever else it was he was trying to resolve?

SM

[Flat in Fifth]

Obviously difficult to comment without specifics but.......

I expect there was a problem and he was trying to create space for colleagues to deal with a situation on the live carriageway ahead.

To be fair when I've seen them do this on motorways round our patch it has been done very professionally with the vehicle lit up brighter than Blackpool illuminations with reasonable control of the situation. That is from someone who doesn't rate HATOs.

[Andrew Noakes]

The rolling roadblock is a pretty well-established technique. Saves closing the whole motorway when the job that needs doing will only take a few moments.

[Dogwatch]

Andrew Noakes said:

The rolling roadblock is a pretty well-established technique. Saves closing the whole motorway when the job that needs doing will only take a few moments.

But do they (HA Types) have the powers to do it?

[AquilaEagle]

Very interesting question, I will ask this to some bib i know

[7db]

Me too.

[Flat in Fifth]

Yes of course they are allowed to do this. One of the stated roles is "Providing mobile / temporary road closures"

edited to add:-

Specifically they have the powers of a constable in this respect if they are on a road for which they have been designated and involved in certain key issues amongst which are:-

Extracted from the relevant legislation

preventing or reducing the effect of anything causing (or which has the
potential to cause) congestion or other disruption to the movement of
traffic on such a road;

avoiding danger to persons or other traffic using such a road (or
preventing risks of any such danger arising);

whereupon they have

the power of a constable under section 35(1) of the Road Traffic Act
1988 (c. 52) to direct a person driving or propelling a
vehicle to stop the vehicle or to proceed in, or keep to, a particular line
of traffic;

OK?


>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Wednesday 4th January 22:56

[7db]

So they have power to stop?

[nonegreen]

Like anything really we should just ignore them and the slimy left wing morons that put them there will think of another way to throw our money away.

[Boosted Ls1]

Flat in Fifth said:

Yes of course they are allowed to do this. One of the stated roles is "Providing mobile / temporary road closures" OK? >> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Wednesday 4th January 22:56

Well you may say it's ok but I know nothing about these feckers. How do I know it's ok? They aren't bib so how do I know what speed I can pass them at? I'd use my own common sense but wouldn't se them as having the powers of bib. Perhaps the public need more information about this.

Boosted.

[heebeegeetee]

Andrew Noakes said:

The rolling roadblock is a pretty well-established technique. Saves closing the whole motorway when the job that needs doing will only take a few moments.

Yep, all seems normal stuff to me.

Its an example of authority using their brains and not just stopping the m'way and creating enormous hold-ups. Its probably for a quick bit of accident/debris clearance.

Yet still the motorist moans... well, some do.

[nonegreen]

heebeegeetee said:

Andrew Noakes said: The rolling roadblock is a pretty well-established technique. Saves closing the whole motorway when the job that needs doing will only take a few moments. Yep, all seems normal stuff to me. Its an example of authority using their brains and not just stopping the m'way and creating enormous hold-ups. Its probably for a quick bit of accident/debris clearance. Yet still the motorist moans... well, some do.

Getting rid of trafpol and replacing them with a few blokes with a pickup and some brooms to clear up when bang thingy happens is fine by me, good idea in fact. I will not stop for them though they are not plod, end of.

[Flat in Fifth]

Boosted Ls1 said:

Flat in Fifth said: Yes of course they are allowed to do this. One of the stated roles is "Providing mobile / temporary road closures" OK? Well you may say it's ok but I know nothing about these feckers. How do I know it's ok? They aren't bib so how do I know what speed I can pass them at? I'd use my own common sense but wouldn't se them as having the powers of bib. Perhaps the public need more information about this. Boosted.

Interestingly enough during the lead up to deployment of HATOs there was a discussion paper about this. In the Risks section it was identified that specifically relating to this issue, that of "Providing Mobile / Temprary Road Closures" had a high risk attached.

Amongst the issues were the transfer of the excellent police protocols for doing this safely, and education of the public.

I'll see if I can find the discussion doc, it must be on the web somewhere, but from my viewpoint what has not been done to deal with the high risk in public knowledge. A few adverts in motorway toilets does not even begin to address the situation imho.

Then as for the keyboard warriors on this and other threads.

[Flat in Fifth]

Just to add the following,

The pdf of the "discussion" paper is here

The pdf of public information leaflet is here

More info on www.highways.gov.uk

[Andrew Noakes]

nonegreen said:

I will not stop for them though they are not plod, end of.

Highway Code says you must follow the directions of any 'authorised person', not just police officers (though I don't think it defines an 'authorised person', which is helpful ).

Are you saying you wouldn't stop for a school crossing patrol warden because they're not plod?

[Boosted Ls1]

Flat in Fifth said:

Just to add the following, The pdf of the "discussion" paper is here The pdf of public information leaflet is here More info on www.highways.gov.uk

Thanks FIF, I'll look at these later

Boosted.

[nonegreen]

Andrew Noakes said:

nonegreen said: I will not stop for them though they are not plod, end of. Highway Code says you must follow the directions of any 'authorised person', not just police officers (though I don't think it defines an 'authorised person', which is helpful ). Are you saying you wouldn't stop for a school crossing patrol warden because they're not plod?

Yes of course I stop for crossing patrols I would not however stop if one of them directed me to stop by the roadside while they had a word.

I have had the Military Police attempt to stop me and they ended up getting driven away from. I have also had the railway police running away after I realised they had no authority in that location and they threatened me so I retaliated. I was with a mate when some prick from CID decided to make himself a traffic cop for a moment. It is my general policy now to firmly establish that these so called authority representatives are actually who they say they are. It takes a little more time but it certainly changes who is controlling the interaction and it can be useful when it comes to court. Obviously if plod stops me and has no chance of nicking me for anything then I am just nice to them till they go away. Outside of those circumstances its war.

[heebeegeetee]

nonegreen said:

Getting rid of trafpol and replacing them with a few blokes with a pickup and some brooms to clear up when bang thingy happens is fine by me, good idea in fact. I will not stop for them though they are not plod, end of.

And here we have encapsulated why roads have to be closed after prangs.

You can't help society 'cos there's always one.

[Flat in Fifth]

So then Mr Nonegreen,

HATOs have the power to order you to stop.
They have the same powers as a constable to report you on summons if you fail to stop having clearly been given such an instruction.

So would you stop or not?

[nonegreen]

Flat in Fifth said:

So then Mr Nonegreen, HATOs have the power to order you to stop. They have the same powers as a constable to report you on summons if you fail to stop having clearly been given such an instruction. So would you stop or not?

No Let them summons me and then I will see them in court