I've just been invited to join the 'enemy'.
Discussion
We belong to the local Neighbourhood Watch and as part of this Surrey police have emailed us inviting us to be voluntary "Community Speed Watch" officers. You have to spend a minimum of 1 hour a week pointing a hair dryer at passing motorists, the police will provide full training including health and safety and handling "conflict situations".
The email raises some interesting questions, apparently anyone noted as speeding will receive a yellow letter. You can receive a maximum of two yellow letters before being "targeted for enforcement where appropriate". They don't say what sort of action will be taken, I guess they could make sure that you get hassled by the local trafpol whenever they see you.
We live in a residential road that does suffer a bit from the drag racing chav'd up Nova/Saxo brigade so the offer is almost tempting, but I think at the end of the day I would probably feel a bit guilty at having signed up to a system that I utterly detest.
Bob
The email raises some interesting questions, apparently anyone noted as speeding will receive a yellow letter. You can receive a maximum of two yellow letters before being "targeted for enforcement where appropriate". They don't say what sort of action will be taken, I guess they could make sure that you get hassled by the local trafpol whenever they see you.
We live in a residential road that does suffer a bit from the drag racing chav'd up Nova/Saxo brigade so the offer is almost tempting, but I think at the end of the day I would probably feel a bit guilty at having signed up to a system that I utterly detest.
Bob
GKP said:
Just make sure you aim it at all of your fellow "Neighbourhood Watchers". I doubt if they are squeaky clean when it comes to speed limits.
That's what I would suggest! Make sure the local busybodies all get their yellow letters asap and see the scheme quietly dropped in short order...Dan_the_man said:
LOCAL PEOPLE SPEED ON LOCAL ROADS !!!!
That's the truth. We had some twit of a woman write in our local rag about how "evil speeders" were coming to our Estate and speeding and how soon a cat, dog or child would be run over.
Couldn't resist it - I wrote in and demolished her with the simple statement that its not people coming to our Estate who are speeding - they're usually going slowly trying to find somewhere - its US! First look at one's own driving and make sure its beyond reproach - THEN criticise others...
NIMBYs.
This invite to spy / snoop / wag fingers at others is appalling and typical of the state of the country at the moment.
...and of course it won't catch dangerous drivers any more than BIB hiding by the side of the road or revenue cameras.
Anyone who volunteers should be ostracised by the community.
...and of course it won't catch dangerous drivers any more than BIB hiding by the side of the road or revenue cameras.
Anyone who volunteers should be ostracised by the community.
How does the legality of the evidence hold up?
I understand that two yellow warning letters will be sent, however after that what happens?
When there are police officers who are operating the devices they have to make an opinion of excess speed through their expertise before using the device to corroborate their findings. Have their been any cases as yet where one of these 'local scamerati' cases have been followed up?
Many thanks if anyone knows!
I understand that two yellow warning letters will be sent, however after that what happens?
When there are police officers who are operating the devices they have to make an opinion of excess speed through their expertise before using the device to corroborate their findings. Have their been any cases as yet where one of these 'local scamerati' cases have been followed up?
Many thanks if anyone knows!
Just an aside:
A friend of mine's father is a BIB. His father said less than 1% (yes 1%) of people have the ability to judge the speed of an approaching vehicle with any accuracy, so "forming an opinion of speed" is a bit of BS really for much of the time.
justinp1 said:
When there are police officers who are operating the devices they have to make an opinion of excess speed through their expertise before using the device to corroborate their findings.
A friend of mine's father is a BIB. His father said less than 1% (yes 1%) of people have the ability to judge the speed of an approaching vehicle with any accuracy, so "forming an opinion of speed" is a bit of BS really for much of the time.
They can take their 'yellow letters', roll them up into a cone, starch them and stick them somewhere appropriate.
You could always stop and ask if your speed is 'fastest of the Day'. If they say no, then tell them you'll go back and make another run.
Laughing at them will also p**s them off no end as well.
You could always join and just happen to 'drop' the 'hair drier'.
You could always stop and ask if your speed is 'fastest of the Day'. If they say no, then tell them you'll go back and make another run.
Laughing at them will also p**s them off no end as well.
You could always join and just happen to 'drop' the 'hair drier'.
james_j said:
Just an aside:
justinp1 said:
When there are police officers who are operating the devices they have to make an opinion of excess speed through their expertise before using the device to corroborate their findings.
A friend of mine's father is a BIB. His father said less than 1% (yes 1%) of people have the ability to judge the speed of an approaching vehicle with any accuracy, so "forming an opinion of speed" is a bit of BS really for much of the time.
I thought as much. When I defended myself against a speeding charge where the 'opinion of speed' was gained at a distance of half a mile away, I asked how the speed=distance/time factor was used and what points of reference and or timings were used.
I found out that despite the fundamental definition of speed requiring both a distance and time factor, none were taken or even attempted to be taken and it was based solely on 'a hunch'. Unfortunately in my case it was that 'hunch' which legally corroborated the LTI2020 dodgyscope.
I realise in practice the opinion of excess speed it probably rarely taken before the speed reading and really is just a pre-written part of the speeding statement to get a conviction. However, in this case, with the non-police operators are they legally able to gain the opinion of excess speed?
>> Edited by justinp1 on Wednesday 4th January 16:34
james_j said:
Just an aside: justinp1 said:
When there are police officers who are operating the devices they have to make an opinion of excess speed through their expertise before using the device to corroborate their findings.
A friend of mine's father is a BIB. His father said less than 1% (yes 1%) of people have the ability to judge the speed of an approaching vehicle with any accuracy, so "forming an opinion of speed" is a bit of BS really for much of the time.
I'd argue that a much higher % will be able to form such an opinion when somebody is caning it. eg 60 in a 30 say. Now 34 in a 30, then I'd struggle and so would anyone else if they are being honest.
Thats the problem, scams were introduced on a scenario of we are only there to catch the real pee takers, but I don't class 35 in a 30 as taking the pee.
Some people do have an extraordinary ability to judge quantitative values using just a quick glance however. My Dad could look at a piece of furniture, say, and pronounce 4ft 7" by 2ft 5" that is, and he'd never, and I really do mean never, be more than an inch out either way.
FiF
Inappropriate speed is definitely a problem in our road, it is a 30 limit with speed bumps, a school and a convenience shop half way down it. Unfortunately it is the main rat-run road between a large estate and our local village so it gets more than its fair share of traffic for the type of road it is. As I mentioned, it does tend to be used by the chav Nova brigade as a sort of testing ground ("lets see how fast we can get from one end to the other without hitting the speed bumps"
and in the last month one of these idiots managed to misjudge it, hit the kerp and catapult his car into someones driveway crashing into their parked car in the process. As such, it definately could do with some sort of enforcement.
This isn't a NIMBY thing, its a "I wish people wouldn't drive like utter morons down our road" thing. What we really need is an undercover trafpol car parked in one of our driveways to catch them, but given the shortage of trafpol maybe people waving hair dryers at the idiots will help a bit ?
*yeeeuch* I can't believe I have just argued FOR speed enforcement, but until someone invents an 'inappropriate driving gun' there isn't much else that can be done in this case.
Bob
and in the last month one of these idiots managed to misjudge it, hit the kerp and catapult his car into someones driveway crashing into their parked car in the process. As such, it definately could do with some sort of enforcement. This isn't a NIMBY thing, its a "I wish people wouldn't drive like utter morons down our road" thing. What we really need is an undercover trafpol car parked in one of our driveways to catch them, but given the shortage of trafpol maybe people waving hair dryers at the idiots will help a bit ?
*yeeeuch* I can't believe I have just argued FOR speed enforcement, but until someone invents an 'inappropriate driving gun' there isn't much else that can be done in this case.
Bob
IMHO this sort of thing should be done by the Police, and, though loathe to say it, the Scamera partnerships. Absolutely no way should local MOP be getting involved with this sort of thing. I would have no confidence in them whatsoever, so its a good job that they have no powers and the letters sent out will be meaningless too. I can well imagine these muppets aiming a gun at a stationary car just because it 'looks' fast, yet missing a speeding car completely because it was a forgettable make and colour being driven smoothly and went past unnoticed. I know I wouldnt be reliable enough or should not be trusted with a power like this, I couldnt garauntee my petty prejudices wouldnt get in the way re' targetting, let alone these Percy Sugden types.
The other problem is, that if none of us volunteer then surely when we next complain about the problems in our road the answer will be 'we offered you a chance to do something about it, but no one volunteered'. Unfortunately the police just don't have enough resources to sort these problems out for us, so we will just have to live with it.
Bob
Bob
catso said:
Just get the gun and 'accidentally' break or lose it, wouldn't that be a shame........
Or take it to Vmax and see if they work at 200mph...
Or just give the police number plates of people you don't like and say you caught them speeding, they're hardly going to check your work.
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