Speeding good, jumping lights bad.
Discussion
I suspect, like many here, I view speed limits with some scepticism, and will press on above the posted limit (particularly rural NSLs) where safe to do so. I don't consider my actions to be heinously immoral. I recognise that they are illegal and will take the punishment if caught, but I would feel unfairly chastised.
On the other hand, I would not apply the same thinking to jumping a red light. Even if I could clearly see that it was safe to go through, I would not. If there was noone else around and it was totally safe. I would not. If I saw someone else do it, I would hope that they were caught. I would feel very fairly treated if I got punished for going through a red light (ambulances behind notwithstanding).
Why the difference?
On the other hand, I would not apply the same thinking to jumping a red light. Even if I could clearly see that it was safe to go through, I would not. If there was noone else around and it was totally safe. I would not. If I saw someone else do it, I would hope that they were caught. I would feel very fairly treated if I got punished for going through a red light (ambulances behind notwithstanding).
Why the difference?
Personally, I treat lights the same way as speed limits: some deserve respect, but there are an increasing number that don’t. It’s a case of being careful beyond all doubt.
You also have to remember that pedestrians have a nasty habit of running into the road before the little green man disappears, so jumping traffic lights in built up areas is generally a
You also have to remember that pedestrians have a nasty habit of running into the road before the little green man disappears, so jumping traffic lights in built up areas is generally a
BliarOut said:
One is inherently safe, the other is inherently unsafe. it's just common sense on your part. The only time I go through a red is if it's obviously stuck, as sometimes happens on a motorbike and then I proceed with extreme caution.
You forgot to mention the extreme bad language directed against dickwads who can't set up the sensors properly
However there are any number of situations, and any number of posts in this forum in the past where there have been legitimate reasons for passing a red light and people have either recieved a ticket or been worried that they will do so from some automated system.
Ie.
Moving out of the way of emergency vehicles with lights on
Being tailgated dangerously closely to the point that stopping rapidly would lead to an accident
To name but two,
Ie.
Moving out of the way of emergency vehicles with lights on
Being tailgated dangerously closely to the point that stopping rapidly would lead to an accident
To name but two,
Interesting. The most intersting scenario i've witnessed is when the traffic lights fail altogether. No traffic queues, and everyone driving with extreme caution.
Both of which contribute to safety.
crazy isn't it?.
I noticed this in pontefract.........
Originally 2 small roundabouts, very close together with a mixture of dual and single lane roads. result - loads of shunts, dings, accidents.
Roadworks started to sort this, and a temporary single roundabout 1 land wide created with road cones. result - trafic flow much improved - no accidents.
"All singing - all dancing" traffic lights system put in. result - massive congestion, accidents. Motorists now using rat-runs, 'no through route signs' installed along with heavy handed enforcement. much anger, much congestion, much accidents.
THEN one day, the traffic lights all went out. - result, free flowing careful traffic again, until the lights were repaired that is.
Both of which contribute to safety.
crazy isn't it?.
I noticed this in pontefract.........
Originally 2 small roundabouts, very close together with a mixture of dual and single lane roads. result - loads of shunts, dings, accidents.
Roadworks started to sort this, and a temporary single roundabout 1 land wide created with road cones. result - trafic flow much improved - no accidents.
"All singing - all dancing" traffic lights system put in. result - massive congestion, accidents. Motorists now using rat-runs, 'no through route signs' installed along with heavy handed enforcement. much anger, much congestion, much accidents.
THEN one day, the traffic lights all went out. - result, free flowing careful traffic again, until the lights were repaired that is.
bryan35 said:
Interesting. The most intersting scenario i've witnessed is when the traffic lights fail altogether. No traffic queues, and everyone driving with extreme caution.
Both of which contribute to safety.
crazy isn't it?.
On this note, do the Police not do point duty anymore? There is a very busy junction near me where 2 motorways and 2 A roads converge. There are major works on this junction at the moment and sometimes the lights are not working resulting in huge delays. There is a major Police station about 100 ysrds up the road and have often thought that someone on duty would have helped lots.
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am sure that when I visited America (Chicago) about 15 years ago, it was OK to drive through a red light if you were turning right, but treated it as a give way. This in the UK would be like treating turning left at a red light is OK if nothing is coming???????
As others above, I always wait at Red lights, even if it is absolutely clear I can go through. But tend to ignore speed limits if is safe to do so.
As others above, I always wait at Red lights, even if it is absolutely clear I can go through. But tend to ignore speed limits if is safe to do so.
7db said:
Its like driving on the wrong side of the road....sooner or later a collision.
What's unsafe about driving on the other side of the road? I do it often, when safe.
Lol the other cars coming towards you!
Understand what you mean cos i do the same thing, i just dont do it if theres any doubt.
g_stacey said:
Tend to proceed with extreme caution even when lights are green! Is there any truth in the thought, that when you do go through a red you take a lot more care and observation, actually becoming safer than when its green. A green light doesn't mean its safe or clear.
g
Always have a quick look to see if you really are going to get that right of way.
So far so good after 20 years of driving. I hope to keep it that way.
7db said:
I suspect, like many here, I view speed limits with some scepticism, and will press on above the posted limit (particularly rural NSLs) where safe to do so. I don't consider my actions to be heinously immoral. I recognise that they are illegal and will take the punishment if caught, but I would feel unfairly chastised.
On the other hand, I would not apply the same thinking to jumping a red light. Even if I could clearly see that it was safe to go through, I would not. If there was noone else around and it was totally safe. I would not. If I saw someone else do it, I would hope that they were caught. I would feel very fairly treated if I got punished for going through a red light (ambulances behind notwithstanding).
Why the difference?
There ain't no difference. You know it deep down, which is why you raised the (very good) philosophical and moral question.
There are some folk saying you shouldn't go through a red light 'cos it's NOT safe, even though you've stressed that you are talking about a hypothetical situation where it IS safe. They then say they speed above the limit when it IS safe.
There are two different types of 'citizens' identified and studied regarding human behaviour. Those that generally abide by the law as a matter of principle, and those that generally select those laws which they follow depending on their own justifications. Leaving aside which is right or wrong, if you fall into the first camp, you will try not to speed OR go through a red light. If you fall into the second, you would speed AND go through a red light.
I agree with you. If in a hypothetical situation it is safe to go through a red, and safe to speed, then why not do both. What is the difference?
Balmoral Green said:
http://media.ebaumsworld.com/carcrash.wmv
I've seen that before - notice how the pedestrian gets squished
Big Fat F'er said:
There ain't no difference. You know it deep down, which is why you raised the (very good) philosophical and moral question.
There are some folk saying you shouldn't go through a red light 'cos it's NOT safe, even though you've stressed that you are talking about a hypothetical situation where it IS safe. They then say they speed above the limit when it IS safe.
There are two different types of 'citizens' identified and studied regarding human behaviour. Those that generally abide by the law as a matter of principle, and those that generally select those laws which they follow depending on their own justifications. Leaving aside which is right or wrong, if you fall into the first camp, you will try not to speed OR go through a red light. If you fall into the second, you would speed AND go through a red light.
I agree with you. If in a hypothetical situation it is safe to go through a red, and safe to speed, then why not do both. What is the difference?
Excellent answer BFF. Is there a difference because speed is a continuous spectrum (58 legal, 59 and a bit legal, 60 legal, 60 and a bit illegal) whilst there is a very clear visible line involved in the traffic lights stop. So the mind says I'll just slip that invisible imaginary line (at 60) up a bit.
And if this does make a difference, isn't alcohol consumption the same?
trax said:
Correct me if I am wrong, but I am sure that when I visited America (Chicago) about 15 years ago, it was OK to drive through a red light if you were turning right, but treated it as a give way. This in the UK would be like treating turning left at a red light is OK if nothing is coming???????
Pennsylvania certainly had (presumably still has) a policy where you could turn right on red provided there were no vehicles coming from the left - as you say, a give way. However, some lights had an explicit 'no turn on red' sign if you were not allowed to do so.
Julian
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