speed signage question

[bryan35]

travelling on the A63 towards Hull.
Dual carriageway NSL.
Then you come across, on each side of the road, 40 signs inside a RED circle with a sign underneath that says '800 yds'
THEN, you come across 3 sets of 50 signs inside a BLACK circle with countdown markers, before reaching a 50 in a RED circle. You do then infact come across the 40 in red circles again.


Basically I thought that on countdown markers you do infact use BLACK circles when indicating speed, and the RED when the limit starts, but they have used RED for the 40 in 800 yds sign.

In my mind that means '40mph NOW' regardless of the 'in 800 yds' underneath.
They should have used the 40 in a BLACK circle.

phew.

Comments chaps?

[7db]

Don't think it affect the enforcibility of any of the limits (perhaps the NSL with the red-bordered sign. Unfortunately don't have time to check TSRGD for you at the moment.

[Dwight VanDriver]

The argument will be that the authoritieshave an obligation to SIGN the start of the limit (not the approach advisory) At the point on the A63 there will be the 40 in black letters surrounded by the red circle and nothing else on either side of the road. This will be the point that is mentioned in the Speed Order and the point at which the speed limit starts. There will be no refererence in the order about countdown information. If signed as above with repeaters further on then lawfully signed can be argued.

The misinformation on approach may well be used in mitigation one would have thought.

dvd

[7db]

DVD - it makes the 40 legally signed, but doesn't the presence of the incorrect 40 limit sign (with the 800 yrds bumpf) make the NSL incorrectly signed?

[Dwight VanDriver]

Conversely it makes the incorrect 40 unenforceable on the gorunds incorrect sign and not within the stated area for the limit under the Order?

dvd

[J1mmyD]

I think you're talking about the stretch of road that's light controlled. (After I've sent this reply, I'll remember what that lane's called)

It used to be 60, but was a real blackspot. It's been reduced to 50 and further reduced to 40 because of road works.

[7db]

Dwight VanDriver said:

Conversely it makes the incorrect 40 unenforceable on the gorunds incorrect sign and not within the stated area for the limit under the Order? dvd

But hte 40 area is correctly signed in the OP -- just there is a spare sign that appears in the NSL. If I have understood.

[greenv8s]

I've wondered about these advance warning signs in the past. They typically look like perfectly normal speed limit signs but with a distance written underneath. Common sense says they aren't speed limit signs, but what does the law say?

[7db]

Can't find anything on the law at the moment. DfT advises against their use as they are ineffective and ignored.

In fact I can think of a number of limits which benefit from countdowns -- not least at the actual limit sign is round a corner in a bush behind a shop...