RE: 159mph PC acquittal overturned
Wednesday 1st February 2006
What's a safe speed?According to a PA News Snap, PC Mark Milton's acquittal was overturned today at the High Court. A BBC news story said the case will be sent back to the Magistrates Court for a new hearing.
159mph PC acquittal overturned
Case damages police-public relations
What's a safe speed?
Paul Smith, founder of the Safe Speed road safety campaign, said: "The case lumbers on. Every time it receives publicity, further damage is done to police response driving and the police-public relationship. "If only they had found a way to drop it quietly. Whatever happens the public loses."
Links
Discussion
If someone was holding a knife to you wife/girlfriend/children etc im sure you'd be quite happy for plod to do 200mph on his way there.
how is he going to do that safely if he has never practiced before.
The whole thing is a farce. the guy has obviously upset somthing and the law as usual is being manipulated against the public interest to get him.
What it does show is that they need proper written guidelines rather than the nod that they can do it.
If it had been one of us yes we would and should be treated differently the same way he should have if he'd done it off duty. Im not saying the way we would be treated is correct but he should be subject to different rules.
G
how is he going to do that safely if he has never practiced before.
The whole thing is a farce. the guy has obviously upset somthing and the law as usual is being manipulated against the public interest to get him.
What it does show is that they need proper written guidelines rather than the nod that they can do it.
If it had been one of us yes we would and should be treated differently the same way he should have if he'd done it off duty. Im not saying the way we would be treated is correct but he should be subject to different rules.
G
The debate rages on...
Get the police laddies to 'test' their cars at Millbrook, if that's what he was really doing.
As for unsafe speeds, I was driving home the other night on the A31 Hogs back, Surrey, when a Police car came past me at what seemed like at least 120mph. This, on a dark/ unlit, bumpy and old Roman road that has a 60mph limit due to the number of accidents on said road.
No blue lights, no siren, nothing. In fact it scared the sh1te out of me at the time as I didn't even see him coming from a distance.
Perhaps he was 'testing' his cars night time performance? I can tell you this though, he sure as heck was out-driving the range of his headlights...
Nuff said,
DTC
Get the police laddies to 'test' their cars at Millbrook, if that's what he was really doing.
As for unsafe speeds, I was driving home the other night on the A31 Hogs back, Surrey, when a Police car came past me at what seemed like at least 120mph. This, on a dark/ unlit, bumpy and old Roman road that has a 60mph limit due to the number of accidents on said road.
No blue lights, no siren, nothing. In fact it scared the sh1te out of me at the time as I didn't even see him coming from a distance.
Perhaps he was 'testing' his cars night time performance? I can tell you this though, he sure as heck was out-driving the range of his headlights...
Nuff said,
DTC
droptheclutch said:
The debate rages on...
Get the police laddies to 'test' their cars at Millbrook, if that's what he was really doing.
As for unsafe speeds, I was driving home the other night on the A31 Hogs back, Surrey, when a Police car came past me at what seemed like at least 120mph. This, on a dark/ unlit, bumpy and old Roman road that has a 60mph limit due to the number of accidents on said road.
No blue lights, no siren, nothing. In fact it scared the sh1te out of me at the time as I didn't even see him coming from a distance.
Perhaps he was 'testing' his cars night time performance? I can tell you this though, he sure as heck was out-driving the range of his headlights...
Nuff said,
DTC
yes but police drivers are supermen and 'speed kills' does not apply to them. They can drive at more than twice the limit that mere mortals can.
droptheclutch said:
The debate rages on...
Get the police laddies to 'test' their cars at Millbrook, if that's what he was really doing.
As for unsafe speeds, I was driving home the other night on the A31 Hogs back, Surrey, when a Police car came past me at what seemed like at least 120mph. This, on a dark/ unlit, bumpy and old Roman road that has a 60mph limit due to the number of accidents on said road.
No blue lights, no siren, nothing. In fact it scared the sh1te out of me at the time as I didn't even see him coming from a distance.
Perhaps he was 'testing' his cars night time performance? I can tell you this though, he sure as heck was out-driving the range of his headlights...
Nuff said,
DTC
Perhaps his tea was getting cold!
Why don,t they take the police car drivers to tracks where they can practice speeds such as 159mph. This would be a safer option and certain senarios can be practised, although they may not be like the real thing.
Also why the F
K are they wasting more of the tax payers money on this!!!!!!!!!!!!
This country has gone MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Also why the F
K are they wasting more of the tax payers money on this!!!!!!!!!!!! This country has gone MAD!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
bunglist said:
Why don,t they take the police car drivers to tracks where they can practice speeds such as 159mph. This would be a safer option and certain senarios can be practised, although they may not be like the real thing.
Don't be silly, how is driving on a track ANYTHING like driving on a public road?
u81922 said:
Lock him up and throw away the key, I say.
If Tony B Liar wants to bring back RESPECT then we need to be able to start with a police force and political machine that we can look up to. 159 mph cannot ever be safe on a public road and double standards will never win respect.
erm, no.
While there's no doubting the copper was 'unwise' to do what he did, and it appears he's being hung-out-to-dry for political reasons, it would send entirely the wrong message to the police. And WE want them to come to our aid when we need it.
Not sure what punishment he should receive, at the moment. And I'm less fussed by the 159 than I am by the 80 in a built-up area. But guess which number is making headlines?
The main gist of this forum is correct. This cop was absolutely out of order doing what he did, and the 'familiarising myself with the capabilities of the vehicle' was and is nothing more than a lame excuse for his hooning around. As another post said, his 80mph in a built-up area was another (worse) demonstration of this guy's lack of judgement. Is he in the right job, I wonder?
I'm all for police officers involved in pursuit work knowing how to handle their vehicles, but it is not in unmarked cars on public roads and on an unsupervised and unapproved basis. Get them on circuits/Millbrook/MIRA/wherever and get the job done properly and safely.
We would all support this, I'm sure.
I'm all for police officers involved in pursuit work knowing how to handle their vehicles, but it is not in unmarked cars on public roads and on an unsupervised and unapproved basis. Get them on circuits/Millbrook/MIRA/wherever and get the job done properly and safely.
We would all support this, I'm sure.
u81922 said:It is this type of b****cks that got us into this mess in the first place.
159 mph cannot ever be safe on a public road ...
Put simply, 159 mph is quite safe where it is safe to do so (i.e. empty motorways), where the driver and car are capable, and where weather conditions allow.
u81922 said:
.. standards will never win respect.
True!!
So we're not all that different after all. Over here in the States, it's more or less common knowledge that the primary reason for joining the state police is the ability to drive at any speed with impunity. Of course, that's any speed a Crown Vic will do, and even if it could do it, I wouldn't want to go 159 mph in one of those. (Although becoming airborne would be the last of one's concerns). Of course, off duty the badge serves as a "get out of jail free" card.
Back during the bad old days of 55 mph speed limit, I was passed by three Maryland State Troopers well over 100 mph, fast enough that their wakes rocked my car. Must have been fresh donuts somewhere...
Back during the bad old days of 55 mph speed limit, I was passed by three Maryland State Troopers well over 100 mph, fast enough that their wakes rocked my car. Must have been fresh donuts somewhere...
jmatras said:
So we're not all that different after all. Over here in the States, it's more or less common knowledge that the primary reason for joining the state police is the ability to drive at any speed with impunity. Of course, that's any speed a Crown Vic will do, and even if it could do it, I wouldn't want to go 159 mph in one of those. (Although becoming airborne would be the last of one's concerns). Of course, off duty the badge serves as a "get out of jail free" card.
Back during the bad old days of 55 mph speed limit, I was passed by three Maryland State Troopers well over 100 mph, fast enough that their wakes rocked my car. Must have been fresh donuts somewhere...
Well i really dont fancy the roads i use being Policed by a bunch of Hooray Henrys on a Double Standards mission.
Donuts sound nice though!
Andy_L said:
159 mph cannot ever be safe on a public road ...
Put simply, 159 mph is quite safe where it is safe to do so (i.e. empty motorways), where the driver and car are capable, and where weather conditions allow.
u81922 said:
.. standards will never win respect.
True!!
cant agree with that. suppose there is a blown-out tyre/debris of the back of a truck/anything else on the motorway (the chance is enough to take precaution), at 160mph at night you will very likely not see it until it is too late. hit it and you're f***ed. even bumps (of which there are plenty on british motorways) can be bloody scary when you're going that fast. it's all well and good arguing the motorway limit is too low at 70, but trying to say its safe to do 160mph on them is just bloody ridiculous.
MR2Mike said:
Why don,t they take the police car drivers to tracks where they can practice speeds such as 159mph. This would be a safer option and certain senarios can be practised, although they may not be like the real thing.
Don't be silly, how is driving on a track ANYTHING like driving on a public road?
Its alot safer to do 159mph on a track than on the highways you MUPPET, as this copper was wanting to test the limits of the car, surely a track would be quite a good place to do it.
Anyway I sure you would be the first to complain it a copper hit you at 159mph on a british road, if you were still able too!!!!!
MR2Mike said:
Why don,t they take the police car drivers to tracks where they can practice speeds such as 159mph. This would be a safer option and certain senarios can be practised, although they may not be like the real thing.
Don't be silly, how is driving on a track ANYTHING like driving on a public road?
It isn't but how a car handles, turns, stops etc at 159 MPH is going to be the same whether you're on a road or a track. Track is the safe place to learn the capabilities of a car or bike. A public road isn't.
The M54 is an almost straight piece of Motorway (and not that long at approx 25 miles), it may only be two lanes but in the early hours of the morning is generally very quite (as all it principally does is link Telford to Birmingham).
Given the right weather and traffic conditions 159mph is not in my opinion automatically unsafe.
I do however know the local roads around that area well (the company I work for has an office in Telford) and while a lot are on business parks, a good number are close to residential areas.
Its (as others have said) the speeds done here that are of a more obvious concern, the layout and design of these roads is fairly poor. To the degree that a large number of them are being reduced over the next year (which also raises the question why not make them safer? - Answer, that would cost more).
In Regard to the question of the need for testing on public roads, I'm quite sure that it is required to a degree. But to say that no facility exists in the UK for high speed and persuit testing exists off the public highway, is quite simply not true. Both MIRA and the TRL sites have suitable areas within them, I know this as I used both locations for vehicle testing and product launch training when I worked for Renault UK. The TRL in particular goes out of its way to simulate the nature of public roads.
From the info I have read on this case it would appear that the guy was out on a jolly and had the mis-fortune to get caught (possiable it would seem because he forgot to check the recording gear on the car). Now if it had been a genuine 'test' of the car, surely he would have used the data from the recording gear to analyis his and the cars performance
.
Given the right weather and traffic conditions 159mph is not in my opinion automatically unsafe.
I do however know the local roads around that area well (the company I work for has an office in Telford) and while a lot are on business parks, a good number are close to residential areas.
Its (as others have said) the speeds done here that are of a more obvious concern, the layout and design of these roads is fairly poor. To the degree that a large number of them are being reduced over the next year (which also raises the question why not make them safer? - Answer, that would cost more).
In Regard to the question of the need for testing on public roads, I'm quite sure that it is required to a degree. But to say that no facility exists in the UK for high speed and persuit testing exists off the public highway, is quite simply not true. Both MIRA and the TRL sites have suitable areas within them, I know this as I used both locations for vehicle testing and product launch training when I worked for Renault UK. The TRL in particular goes out of its way to simulate the nature of public roads.
From the info I have read on this case it would appear that the guy was out on a jolly and had the mis-fortune to get caught (possiable it would seem because he forgot to check the recording gear on the car). Now if it had been a genuine 'test' of the car, surely he would have used the data from the recording gear to analyis his and the cars performance
.
I'm not a fan of the "speed kills" mentality, but the law is the law, and if he caught any of us doing this speed then we'd be banged up. I say: throw the book at him, fine and a criminal conviction that'll stop him getting sensible insurance for years, oh, and take away his livelihood as well.
Live by the gun, die by the gun, as the old adage goes...
Live by the gun, die by the gun, as the old adage goes...
I think that he was speeding, he got caught he got done for it. Its pretty fair. This familiarising thing doesn't fly with me. What if i was to buy a performance car and familiarise myself with it at 159mph? I'm pretty sure that not only would i get locked up, the key would get thrown a fair distance away too.
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