Mini-bus Crash near Nottingham
Discussion
Just watched the BBC News to hear of the tragedy near Nottingham.
Eyewitnesses say that the accident was caused from the fact that the minibus was attempting to overtake two articulated lorries. The crash was head on, with the minibus in the opposite side of the road when it hit a bread van. Unsure about the number of lives lost at the moments, but it seems they were numerous.
This is sad enough, however the reason why I write is the report made by the BBC reporter.
He mentioned that the cause of the accident (as close to a quote as I can get) was due to the fact that here, like many other places in the country have narrow and winding roads, yet have the speed limit set at the national speed limit.
Call me thick, or a cynic, but I am completely unaware how the speed limit of the road had anything to do with avoiding this crash, indeed, at this point there is no information on how fast each of the vehicles were going.
In fact, if the roads are 'windy and narrow' as reported, overtaking two lorries in a row would not be a manouvre I would attempt myself...
So, *why* is the fact that the road is 'still' at the national speed limit given as the cause of the accident? Was he told to say this by some body? Or is it the case that the reporter had decided this and reported it himself?
>> Edited by justinp1 on Tuesday 14th February 18:27
Eyewitnesses say that the accident was caused from the fact that the minibus was attempting to overtake two articulated lorries. The crash was head on, with the minibus in the opposite side of the road when it hit a bread van. Unsure about the number of lives lost at the moments, but it seems they were numerous.
This is sad enough, however the reason why I write is the report made by the BBC reporter.
He mentioned that the cause of the accident (as close to a quote as I can get) was due to the fact that here, like many other places in the country have narrow and winding roads, yet have the speed limit set at the national speed limit.
Call me thick, or a cynic, but I am completely unaware how the speed limit of the road had anything to do with avoiding this crash, indeed, at this point there is no information on how fast each of the vehicles were going.
In fact, if the roads are 'windy and narrow' as reported, overtaking two lorries in a row would not be a manouvre I would attempt myself...
So, *why* is the fact that the road is 'still' at the national speed limit given as the cause of the accident? Was he told to say this by some body? Or is it the case that the reporter had decided this and reported it himself?
>> Edited by justinp1 on Tuesday 14th February 18:27
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/li
I have complained about this. The reporter has no right to suggest that the speed limit has anything to do with safety on those roads.
I have complained about this. The reporter has no right to suggest that the speed limit has anything to do with safety on those roads.
off_again said:
Article on the website does not seem to mention anything - but only scan read....
No, it doesnt, I think that is another clue as to what has gone on. The news report I saw was on the BBC Six O'clock news on BB1. Maybe the same report will be used for the news later on? Or perhaps it can be accessed somehow with the magical 'red button' if you have one.
Its worth a look, I was so astonished I thought I hadnt heard right til I rewound it!
justinp1 said:
Eyewitnesses say that the accident was caused from the fact that the minibus was attempting to overtake two articulated lorries.
That's not how I read the eyewitness testimony.
BBC website said:
Brian Thompson, the driver of a lorry involved in the crash, said: "I looked in my mirror and saw a lorry's headlights half way down the side of my trailer, and I thought to myself then, 'we got no chance here, something's got to go'.
"I [saw] a line of traffic coming towards me... with a little Transit or minibus leading a queue of a line of half a dozen vehicles, and I could see there was going to be something happening.
"So I grabbed my steering wheel and braced myself and heard the bang and crash and looked in my mirror and then there was red lights and white lights everywhere, and after that I don't really know what happened."
Now, I don't know about you but to me that says that one of the lorries was overtaking another and the transit was an innocent victim.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
Tragic.
I know that road well. Most of it is relatively new, and was built as a single carriageway, when it patently obviously calls for dualing.
It is not twisty or thin.
The first part of the road (Bingham) is Dual carriageway - and is the only part with Specs cameras on it
, I'm not sure where the crash happened but although the stretch by Bottesford is wide & straight, as you get nearer to Grantham it does get a bit more twisty - and there's a 'Safety' camera on that bit. catso said:
The first part of the road (Bingham) is Dual carriageway
T'aint! People just use it that way. I believe the accident was at the Muston Gap.
I reckon the only dualled bit is before Radcliffe (when approaching from Nottingham)
http://uk.multimap.com/map/browse.cgi
>> Edited by 2 sMoKiN bArReLs on Tuesday 14th February 20:25
The other PH thread about this had this quote
Brake said:so i guess this is where the BBC have picked it up from. I always remind myself that their job is to tell and/or make the story so a soundbite like this is right up their street and (in their eyes) more newsworthy than any number of people saying it just wasnt a safe situation for an overtake
Mary Williams, chief executive of national road safety charity Brake, said: "Crashes caused when overtaking on Britain's fast, rural A-roads are shockingly common, yet frequently result in multiple fatalities due to the speed of impact.
"Yet there is no government advertising campaign about the dangers of overtaking, despite the fact that many of our roads are bendy, narrow, and often wet, with a limit of 60mph, only 10mph slower than a motorway."
mefoster said:
Eyewitnesses say that the accident was caused from the fact that the minibus was attempting to overtake two articulated lorries.
That's not how I read the eyewitness testimony.
BBC website said:
Brian Thompson, the driver of a lorry involved in the crash, said: "I looked in my mirror and saw a lorry's headlights half way down the side of my trailer, and I thought to myself then, 'we got no chance here, something's got to go'.
"I [saw] a line of traffic coming towards me... with a little Transit or minibus leading a queue of a line of half a dozen vehicles, and I could see there was going to be something happening.
"So I grabbed my steering wheel and braced myself and heard the bang and crash and looked in my mirror and then there was red lights and white lights everywhere, and after that I don't really know what happened."
Now, I don't know about you but to me that says that one of the lorries was overtaking another and the transit was an innocent victim.
That may be true of the website report, however if you were to quote my whole post you may have realised that it started:
justinp1 said:
Just watched the BBC News to hear of the tragedy near Nottingham.
As I also mentioned in my later post it became clear that there was quite a difference to what was on the website than what was reported on the TV report.
My gripe with the TV report is that before it was fully investigated, the BBC put forward their own point of view to the cause of the accident, and even how the accident was caused.
njwc said:
The other PH thread about this had this quote Brake said:so i guess this is where the BBC have picked it up from. I always remind myself that their job is to tell and/or make the story so a soundbite like this is right up their street and (in their eyes) more newsworthy than any number of people saying it just wasnt a safe situation for an overtake
Mary Williams, chief executive of national road safety charity Brake, said: "Crashes caused when overtaking on Britain's fast, rural A-roads are shockingly common, yet frequently result in multiple fatalities due to the speed of impact.
"Yet there is no government advertising campaign about the dangers of overtaking, despite the fact that many of our roads are bendy, narrow, and often wet, with a limit of 60mph, only 10mph slower than a motorway."
Would Mary like to point out no-one is taught how to overtake, either safely or dangerously in this country, sad fact is education is the fault yet it'll be blamed on speed. Of course lorries obeying the crap 40mph limit on national speed limit roads does nothing to encourage the uneducated masses from not overtaking.
2 sMoKiN bArReLs said:
T'aint! People just use it that way. I believe the accident was at the Muston Gap.
Well there's a short section after the Saxondale roundabout, where the A52 crosses Tithby road where there is a central reservation, admittedly it's not very long but is a Dual carriageway.
justinp1 said:
That may be true of the website report, however if you were to quote my whole post you may have realised that it started:
justinp1 said:
Just watched the BBC News to hear of the tragedy near Nottingham.
Oh, don't get me wrong, I'm not picking holes in your post. What I don't understand is that everyone seems to be saying that it's all the fault of the Transit driver, even the TrafPol on the news report said it.
Yet here we have a first hand account of the events leading the accident and he says quite clearly that one lorry was overtaking another and that the Transit was coming the other way at the head of a line of cars.
justinp1 said:
As I also mentioned in my later post it became clear that there was quite a difference to what was on the website than what was reported on the TV report.
Indeed. I too took great exception to the statement that the road was bendy and narrow yet the speed limit is 60mph.
justinp1 said:
My gripe with the TV report is that before it was fully investigated, the BBC put forward their own point of view to the cause of the accident, and even how the accident was caused.
IMO, it's just another example of the ever decreasing standard of reporting that is coming out of the BBC these days. Then again, if you think about it, the "dish monkeys" they employ now are all products of the modern education system so we shouldn't really be surprised.
cptsideways said:
Of course lorries obeying the crap 40mph limit on national speed limit roads does nothing to encourage the uneducated masses from not overtaking.
I've just recieved a NIP today. I was doing 46 in a 60, but I was in a truck so should have been doing 40. I think the camera was triggered by an oncoming car, I've blocked the view of the oncoming car, but the photos will show I was exceeding 40.
Still, if trucks stick to 40 there's going to be some pretty long queues. Which is probably what they want.
I quite agree that they were incredibly quick to pick up on the speed limit of the road as the key cause for accidents although the minibus driver was crazy enough to overtake a second lorry when it was clearly dangerous to do so. It seems that the BBC in particular are fans of the speed kills mantra and of course there can be no other cause of an accident... very unprofessinal reporting and sadly many ordinary people will accept that as the honest truth.
It is very sad to hear of so many needless deaths due to one driver trying to gain a small amount of time on the journey to work but for speed to be vilified yet again does not help the future situation!
It is very sad to hear of so many needless deaths due to one driver trying to gain a small amount of time on the journey to work but for speed to be vilified yet again does not help the future situation!
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