Police Driver Training
Discussion
Saw some quite unbelievable Police Driver Training today. Three cars on various stretches of road between Marlborough and Devizes. No problem with the first two cars, but number 3 (Skoda Octavia VRS)was showing some interesting driving skills.
I was heading towards Marlborough when the 3 cars I was following on a free flowing stretch of the A4 have to brake because said Skoda travelling in the opposite direction, was overtaking multiple vehicles at speed. He did have the forsight to pull in behind a truck just before he reached us, but then proceeded to pull out to overtake the truck before I had passed him. I so enjoyed nearly being side swiped by him.
I do appreciate the importance of driver training and that they need to be capable of driving in all situations, but if I had done the same with a police car coming the other way I would have been done for Dangerous driving without a doubt.
I was heading towards Marlborough when the 3 cars I was following on a free flowing stretch of the A4 have to brake because said Skoda travelling in the opposite direction, was overtaking multiple vehicles at speed. He did have the forsight to pull in behind a truck just before he reached us, but then proceeded to pull out to overtake the truck before I had passed him. I so enjoyed nearly being side swiped by him.
I do appreciate the importance of driver training and that they need to be capable of driving in all situations, but if I had done the same with a police car coming the other way I would have been done for Dangerous driving without a doubt.
I think if you find yourself in the vicinity of police drivers while they are in the process of high speed training, you are likely to see some entertaining driving.
Even so, if you feel it was placing you at undue risk, or it seriously alarmed you, I think it would be worth reporting if you have sufficient information, and it sounds as if you have.
We sometimes discuss here the business of police drivers doing high speed training on public roads, and I know some people are unhappy about it. My view has always been that some of their high speed training (emergency response and pursuit work) needs to be done on public roads in normal traffic conditions, otherwise they can not be properly prepared to carry out their work subsequently. Of course it introduces some risk, but if that is not accepted during a few weeks of training, there will inevitably be greater risks in the years that follow.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Even so, if you feel it was placing you at undue risk, or it seriously alarmed you, I think it would be worth reporting if you have sufficient information, and it sounds as if you have.
We sometimes discuss here the business of police drivers doing high speed training on public roads, and I know some people are unhappy about it. My view has always been that some of their high speed training (emergency response and pursuit work) needs to be done on public roads in normal traffic conditions, otherwise they can not be properly prepared to carry out their work subsequently. Of course it introduces some risk, but if that is not accepted during a few weeks of training, there will inevitably be greater risks in the years that follow.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
TripleS said:
I think if you find yourself in the vicinity of police drivers while they are in the process of high speed training, you are likely to see some entertaining driving.
Even so, if you feel it was placing you at undue risk, or it seriously alarmed you, I think it would be worth reporting if you have sufficient information, and it sounds as if you have.
We sometimes discuss here the business of police drivers doing high speed training on public roads, and I know some people are unhappy about it. My view has always been that some of their high speed training (emergency response and pursuit work) needs to be done on public roads in normal traffic conditions, otherwise they can not be properly prepared to carry out their work subsequently. Of course it introduces some risk, but if that is not accepted during a few weeks of training, there will inevitably be greater risks in the years that follow.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I have always been taught, on two occassions by traffic class 1 never to overtake if it puts 3 vehicles side by side.
Persoanally if I did this and was seen, I would expect to get stopped for it.
However, people make mistakes, perhaps after the event, the drivers instructor pointed out the error - just a thought, we all have to learn.
Report it, wouldn't bother, less he really nearly hit you. Car was prob. camera equiped, so they should be able to trace it.
M
Persoanally if I did this and was seen, I would expect to get stopped for it.
However, people make mistakes, perhaps after the event, the drivers instructor pointed out the error - just a thought, we all have to learn.
Report it, wouldn't bother, less he really nearly hit you. Car was prob. camera equiped, so they should be able to trace it.
M
purpleheadedcerb said:
I'd report it. Do you really want him passing the course? Your complaint might help them evidence his lack of skill and get him bumped.
But he didnt cause an accident, he didnt hit anyone, he was fully aware of what he was doing so i say let it be. His standard of driving & road awareness is probably higher than 90% of people on the road so if anyone can drive in that manner its those guys. (oh & me on an early sunday blat of course)
Causing oncoming traffic to brake, lack of forward planning (feeding himself in behind a truck so that he doesn't have decent vision and reduced braking gap) and then pulling back out too early to continue his overtake a reasonable standard of driving.
I'm not saying that a prosecution should follow, I would say an official logged complaint with a view to the issue being raised a) with the driver and b) with the instructor. Was it something that was picked up on? Maybe he has alrteady been dropped from the course in which case our original thread starter might deem that a satisfactory outcome.
I'm not saying that a prosecution should follow, I would say an official logged complaint with a view to the issue being raised a) with the driver and b) with the instructor. Was it something that was picked up on? Maybe he has alrteady been dropped from the course in which case our original thread starter might deem that a satisfactory outcome.
Im sure that his instructor will give him enough punishment. Apart from this, his hearing is probably damaged by the shouting he has received and the main thing is that he will learn from it. If he doesnt, he wont pass.
Also, if he was on his 'final drive' he wpould have just wasted 4 or 6 weeks and will have to do it all again.
Personally, i would leave it.
Also, if he was on his 'final drive' he wpould have just wasted 4 or 6 weeks and will have to do it all again.
Personally, i would leave it.
Sounds to me that the instructor in the skoda was the bandit car and that he/she was just testing the pursuit cars. My friend who just finished her advanced course told me about the pursuit week and that the Skoda driver will try to put the pursuit drivers in a difficult position, try to lure them into a trap. It's to test that the pursuit driver keeps his/her calm and doesn't go into red mist and always keeps their options open.
I doubt that the instructor whould have put you in danger but another part of pursuit is whether or not to continue the pursuit if the pursuit driver deems it too dangerous.
I could be completely wrong as I'm only a response driver but that's my guess.
I also doubt a court will see a class 1 advanced driving instructor as ever driving dangerously, especially if they drive like that to test advanced drivers on a daily basis.
I doubt that the instructor whould have put you in danger but another part of pursuit is whether or not to continue the pursuit if the pursuit driver deems it too dangerous.
I could be completely wrong as I'm only a response driver but that's my guess.
I also doubt a court will see a class 1 advanced driving instructor as ever driving dangerously, especially if they drive like that to test advanced drivers on a daily basis.
They didn't consider that the Met driver-under-training, nor the instructor, were guilty of anything when their 115 mph trip along the A10 towards Cambride resulted in the death of a young nurse who was the end car in a stationary queue into the back of which they crashed.
If that's what happens it not worth reporting anything a trainee police driver does.
If that's what happens it not worth reporting anything a trainee police driver does.
Cooperman said:
They didn't consider that the Met driver-under-training, nor the instructor, were guilty of anything when their 115 mph trip along the A10 towards Cambride resulted in the death of a young nurse who was the end car in a stationary queue into the back of which they crashed.
If that's what happens it not worth reporting anything a trainee police driver does.
Peter - I'm still interested to learn what happened in that case. Do you happen to know how one can get hold of any reports into the incident? As I understand it the police driver who hit the tail end of that queue escaped virtually blameless. Is that really what happened, and how could that be right?
I mean to say - the number of times 'Roadcraft' tells us to always be able to stop in the distance we can see to be clear etc. That rule appears to have been completely disregarded, with tragic results.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Cooperman said:
They didn't consider that the Met driver-under-training, nor the instructor, were guilty of anything
Not quite true. For starters, it was the instructor driving, he was also convicted, if I remember rightly, of without due care or careless, but found not guilty of death by dangerous. It was a long time ago, around 1996/1997, but I am sure he was convicted of WDC or careless.
-Edited to add-
I just found these: www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1996/07/30/ncoppa30.html
www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1996/07/24/nurse24.html
>> Edited by omegac on Friday 17th February 14:19
>> Edited by omegac on Friday 17th February 14:21
Tonyrec said:
Im sure that his instructor will give him enough punishment. Apart from this, his hearing is probably damaged by the shouting he has received and the main thing is that he will learn from it. If he doesnt, he wont pass.
Also, if he was on his 'final drive' he wpould have just wasted 4 or 6 weeks and will have to do it all again.
Personally, i would leave it.
Quite.
Jesus, has anyone one here never made a minor mistake or lack of judgement? I know it is not nice to be involved, but I am sure the Trainers are perfectly used to disciplining their students when they FU...
Cheers,
Steve
omegac said:
They didn't consider that the Met driver-under-training, nor the instructor, were guilty of anything
Not quite true. For starters, it was the instructor driving, he was also convicted, if I remember rightly, of without due care or careless, but found not guilty of death by dangerous. It was a long time ago, around 1996/1997, but I am sure he was convicted of WDC or careless.
-Edited to add-
I just found these: www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1996/07/30/ncoppa30.html
www.opinion.telegraph.co.uk/htmlContent.jhtml?html=/archive/1996/07/24/nurse24.html
>> Edited by omegac on Friday 17th February 14:19
>> Edited by omegac on Friday 17th February 14:21
How anyone can get into the position of being a police advanced instructor without understanding how to corner safely is totally nad utterly beyond my comprehension.
He should have been jailed and serious questions asked of the process by which he was promoted to be an instructor.
So he was 29 when the accident happened? I know they hand out driving courses early these days but he could only have had a max of 7 years response driving, maybe 4 of those at Advanced if he was lucky. Seems wrong to me.
I'd be interested to know if there was a sign warning for the roadworks that he hadn't observed, sympathetic if there wasn't.
I'd be interested to know if there was a sign warning for the roadworks that he hadn't observed, sympathetic if there wasn't.
My memory was that he was done for the RTA and hammered at court as much as they could for WDC. He had run the road earlier and there were no road works. When he drove the students along it the roadworks had gone in but there was no sign warning until into the bend itself as the roadworks were the other side. The trouble was traffic had tailed back - thus the collision.
My recollection might be wrong but , as I say, thats as best as I can remember it.
My recollection might be wrong but , as I say, thats as best as I can remember it.
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