Bad instructions from a traffic officer?
Discussion
What if a traffic officer asks you to do something that puts your vehicle at risk of damage? And after a brief discussion, in which the officer tells you that "you should just do it as others have done it" you stupidly try the said manoeuvre under the observation of the officer and damage results.
I know I should have just told the officer that I wasn't prepared to go along with it, but given the forcefulness of the command and the general attitude of the officer, I though I'd better have a go.
I'm not all that worried about the damage - it was minor. But I am concerned about the conduct of the officer (it would have been very easy for them to take action to avoid the whole thing - I asked and they refused) in question and the liklihood of them trying to get at me if I persue the matter further.
I know I should have just told the officer that I wasn't prepared to go along with it, but given the forcefulness of the command and the general attitude of the officer, I though I'd better have a go.
I'm not all that worried about the damage - it was minor. But I am concerned about the conduct of the officer (it would have been very easy for them to take action to avoid the whole thing - I asked and they refused) in question and the liklihood of them trying to get at me if I persue the matter further.
I am also interested to hear what this is about.
The reason is that I've sometimes wondered about this hypothetical situation:
You drive along a narrow road in a town. The road is partially blocked by a large parked vehicle and you can not squeeze past without climbing a kerb. You don't want to climb the kerb so you wait for the vehicle to move. A police officer appears, and rather than ordering the parked vehicle to move, he instructs you to climb the kerb to get past the obstruction. What do you do?
Do you refuse his instruction and risk whatever action he then takes against you, or do you climb the kerb with the risk of causing damage to your tyres, wheels, steering gear, suspension, etc? Note that any such damage may not be immediately apparent, but if it occurs it could cause a failure some time later, perhaps at speed, with serious consequences.
My inclination would be to make him aware of these concerns and refuse his instruction. What do you think?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
The reason is that I've sometimes wondered about this hypothetical situation:
You drive along a narrow road in a town. The road is partially blocked by a large parked vehicle and you can not squeeze past without climbing a kerb. You don't want to climb the kerb so you wait for the vehicle to move. A police officer appears, and rather than ordering the parked vehicle to move, he instructs you to climb the kerb to get past the obstruction. What do you do?
Do you refuse his instruction and risk whatever action he then takes against you, or do you climb the kerb with the risk of causing damage to your tyres, wheels, steering gear, suspension, etc? Note that any such damage may not be immediately apparent, but if it occurs it could cause a failure some time later, perhaps at speed, with serious consequences.
My inclination would be to make him aware of these concerns and refuse his instruction. What do you think?
Best wishes all,
Dave.
Imagine a situation like TripleS', except that the large vehicle is a patrol car... You're instructed to go past and that you will be watched by said officer. You refuse and ask for the car to be moved. Officer refuses to move the car, and lectures you a bit, so try to get past very carefully with officer watching you, and a small amount of damage results from intersection with patrol car...
Cue lots of paperwork
Cue lots of paperwork
eccles said:
there must be some pretty flimsy cars out there if the can't slowly mount a curb without damaging their steering and suspension! not sure i'd like to be driving round in one.
It's not hard to imagine an obstacle that a soft roader would drive through easily but where a sports car would suffer damage. Low profile tyres don't protect the rims from curbing damage, there may be ground clearance/traction issues and so on. Personally I would never deliberately drive my V8S up a curb because I know it will throw the steering geometry out even if it doesn't damage the wheel.
GreenV8S said:
there must be some pretty flimsy cars out there if the can't slowly mount a curb without damaging their steering and suspension! not sure i'd like to be driving round in one.
It's not hard to imagine an obstacle that a soft roader would drive through easily but where a sports car would suffer damage. Low profile tyres don't protect the rims from curbing damage, there may be ground clearance/traction issues and so on. Personally I would never deliberately drive my V8S up a curb because I know it will throw the steering geometry out even if it doesn't damage the wheel.
if you notice i didn't mention damage to tyres.
i think there must be something seriously wrong with your car if slowly driving it up a 4" curb is going to put the steering geometry out.
I had exactly this situation once in the S - I told the police officer that I was NOT driving up the kerb as I would have no exhaust left by the time I'd passed. I told him that I was more than happy to sit where I was and read my paper until the road was clear.
He said "And what about all those people behind you?"
I said "Well they'll have to get their own papers or wait till I've finished this one..."
He said "And what about all those people behind you?"
I said "Well they'll have to get their own papers or wait till I've finished this one..."
eccles said:
there must be some pretty flimsy cars out there if the can't slowly mount a curb without damaging their steering and suspension! not sure i'd like to be driving round in one.
It's not hard to imagine an obstacle that a soft roader would drive through easily but where a sports car would suffer damage. Low profile tyres don't protect the rims from curbing damage, there may be ground clearance/traction issues and so on. Personally I would never deliberately drive my V8S up a curb because I know it will throw the steering geometry out even if it doesn't damage the wheel.
if you notice i didn't mention damage to tyres.
i think there must be something seriously wrong with your car if slowly driving it up a 4" curb is going to put the steering geometry out.
Driving it slowly up onto the kerb is not the only consideration. It also depends on the angle at which you attack it. If you mount the kerb at a very shallow angle, i.e. almost parallel to the line of the kerb, you will put very large sideways forces into the suspension and steering gear. I would suggest this involves the risk of putting something out of alignment, and this could affect many quite normal cars. Quite honestly I think it is best to avoid it if at all possible.
Best wishes all,
Dave.
I found myself in this very situation a few months ago. Driving from work to the gym, there had been a bad accident on the roundabout ahead and the dual carriageway was closed both lanes.
The police were instructing people to mount the central reservation which was about 15 feet wide, cross it and return on opposite side to the previous roundabout where they had another car directing traffic.
When it came to my turn I politely refused as there was no way I was going to risk damaging the Chim by bumping up the high kerb and then getting stuck in mud (artics had chewed the grass up badly). I'd had time to think about what I was going to say and was expecting a 'fight'.
After a few words the officer shone his torch under the car then and made a space for me to park up besides his car. 15 mins later I had a police escort on the wrong side of the road up to the roundabout where I was waved through.
I think in the majority of cases if you are polite and rational then you get a favourable outcome, however there are always exceptions and if there was damage and witnesses you should have a case.
>> Edited by Shake me up Judy on Sunday 19th February 21:39
The police were instructing people to mount the central reservation which was about 15 feet wide, cross it and return on opposite side to the previous roundabout where they had another car directing traffic.
When it came to my turn I politely refused as there was no way I was going to risk damaging the Chim by bumping up the high kerb and then getting stuck in mud (artics had chewed the grass up badly). I'd had time to think about what I was going to say and was expecting a 'fight'.
After a few words the officer shone his torch under the car then and made a space for me to park up besides his car. 15 mins later I had a police escort on the wrong side of the road up to the roundabout where I was waved through.
I think in the majority of cases if you are polite and rational then you get a favourable outcome, however there are always exceptions and if there was damage and witnesses you should have a case.
>> Edited by Shake me up Judy on Sunday 19th February 21:39
A similar experience, but not quite the same.
When I went on the car ferry from Liverpool to the Isle of Man. Booking in at ther ferry port, you line all your cars up in a marshalling area, just like at any other ferry terminal.
Then when the boat is ready to load, there are ferry employees there to guide you down the ramps and on to the boat.
So come loading time the cars in front of me followed their instructions. I followed them heading for the boat. Then the marshalling guy signals me to stop. So I do. A queue of cars build up behind and after a while some drivers get bored and start blowng horns, etc. I ask the guy if we're OK to go down to the boat yet. He shakes his head and after that does his best to avoid eye contact as if this massive queue of cars did not exist. Other drivers get out of their cars and try to find out what the problem is...
...10 minutes later, the guy beckons me forward, to join the empty ramp to head down to the boat. I follow his instructions, only to hear a scream of brakes, horn and another driver (in my blind spot) has had to to an emergency stop to avoid me
.
This was my first trip on this boat and I was unaware of the road layout and lane markings leaving this marshalling area. For all I knew, this was just a bit of tarmac between the car park and the ferry, but this pillock, who was EMPLOYED TO MARSHALL TRAFFIC, had just beckoned me to drive straight across the main Liverpool docks road, INTO THE PATH OF AN ONCOMING CAR!!
Thanks to the skills of the other driver, there was no collision, though it was bloody close. A lesson learned on my part, but was I wholly to blame for allowing myself to follow the directions of an incompetent t
t in a yellow tabard? In my own mind: yes. From an insurance point of view: almost certainly yes. But really, for him to knowingly beckon someone forward, into the path of 30MPH traffic, Jesus.
So in relation to this thread, I'd say don't follow anyone's instructions if you think they're dangerous, and be bloody careful about following their instructions in ANY circumstances.
When I went on the car ferry from Liverpool to the Isle of Man. Booking in at ther ferry port, you line all your cars up in a marshalling area, just like at any other ferry terminal.
Then when the boat is ready to load, there are ferry employees there to guide you down the ramps and on to the boat.
So come loading time the cars in front of me followed their instructions. I followed them heading for the boat. Then the marshalling guy signals me to stop. So I do. A queue of cars build up behind and after a while some drivers get bored and start blowng horns, etc. I ask the guy if we're OK to go down to the boat yet. He shakes his head and after that does his best to avoid eye contact as if this massive queue of cars did not exist. Other drivers get out of their cars and try to find out what the problem is...
...10 minutes later, the guy beckons me forward, to join the empty ramp to head down to the boat. I follow his instructions, only to hear a scream of brakes, horn and another driver (in my blind spot) has had to to an emergency stop to avoid me
. This was my first trip on this boat and I was unaware of the road layout and lane markings leaving this marshalling area. For all I knew, this was just a bit of tarmac between the car park and the ferry, but this pillock, who was EMPLOYED TO MARSHALL TRAFFIC, had just beckoned me to drive straight across the main Liverpool docks road, INTO THE PATH OF AN ONCOMING CAR!!
Thanks to the skills of the other driver, there was no collision, though it was bloody close. A lesson learned on my part, but was I wholly to blame for allowing myself to follow the directions of an incompetent t
t in a yellow tabard? In my own mind: yes. From an insurance point of view: almost certainly yes. But really, for him to knowingly beckon someone forward, into the path of 30MPH traffic, Jesus. So in relation to this thread, I'd say don't follow anyone's instructions if you think they're dangerous, and be bloody careful about following their instructions in ANY circumstances.
eccles said:
if you notice i didn't mention damage to tyres.
i think there must be something seriously wrong with your car if slowly driving it up a 4" curb is going to put the steering geometry out.
You're entitled to your opinion of course, but I don't think you appreciate the loads that can be generated when you drive a car up a curb at an oblique angle. It can easily generate loads high enough to throw the geometry out, and it can also damage the wheel and tyre.
Thanks all. The damage was not to the suspension. It was a scratch and small dent due to being flagged by the officer through a gap too narrow for the car, touching the kerb and being pushed by it gently sideways into the police vehicle (about an inch of sideways by my calculations) - all of course happening while being "watched" by the officer of the law...
The said officer had been asked twice politely to move the vehicle so I could get through (there was plenty of space to move it into) and had refused. The third time I was not so polite. The police vehicle was therefore moved after the incident took place. Not a good thing. Unfortunately, there were no witnesses.
I know I should have stuck to my guns and said "no, I'm going to sit here until you're going ot be sensible", but I needed to get home and generally, I prefer to lead a quiet life (apart from having loud flat 4 and v8 engines
) so try to comply as best I can with requests and instructions from officers of the law. More fool me - it resulted in me being cautioned and possibly charged with driving without due care and attention!
>> Edited by dnb on Sunday 19th February 22:27
The said officer had been asked twice politely to move the vehicle so I could get through (there was plenty of space to move it into) and had refused. The third time I was not so polite. The police vehicle was therefore moved after the incident took place. Not a good thing. Unfortunately, there were no witnesses.
I know I should have stuck to my guns and said "no, I'm going to sit here until you're going ot be sensible", but I needed to get home and generally, I prefer to lead a quiet life (apart from having loud flat 4 and v8 engines
) so try to comply as best I can with requests and instructions from officers of the law. More fool me - it resulted in me being cautioned and possibly charged with driving without due care and attention! >> Edited by dnb on Sunday 19th February 22:27
Like some others I've found myself in a similar situation. Travelling home late one Sunday evening along the A465 'Heads of the Valleys' road with a large caravan behind my Merc 280 estate I saw blue lights in the near distance. Slowed down and eventually saw a young WPC in the road flagging me to stop.
There had been a 'Fatal' a little further down the road and as it was a 'Crime Scene' (if that's the right term) the road would be closed for some time for it to be investigated.
For those that know the area it was at the bottom of the steep hill just after Bavistocks motel near Methyr. Her instruction was to turn around and find an alternative route.
Pointed out politely that although it was a 3 lane road it wasn't wide enough to turn the Merc and caravan around - back came the reply "You'll have to reverse back up to the top then".
Now this is about 3 miles up a steep hill at night with moderatley heavy rain and mist. Pointed out this wasn't a good idea with the chance of traffic, including HGV's heading towards me at a rate of knots.
"Can't you unhitch the caravan and turn it around manually"
"Not a good idea on a steep hill - caravan brakes aren't really designed to work in reverse, so there's no guarentee I'll be able to hold it even with you helping". (a bit of joke as she must have been all of about 6.5 stone).
By this time a string of traffic had built up behind me and was busy practicing their 3 point turns.
Eventually one of the Trafpol guys walked up, took one look and said,
"Hang on there 10 mins and we'll get you through - it's a bit nasty down there try not to let the kids see"
10 minutes later we were on our way.
The moral of the story and answer to the orignal post - depends on who is doing the instructing. No disrespect to this young WPC, but she had absolutely no concept of the problem or the possible dangers in her 'requests' but once an experienced Officer came along ........
There had been a 'Fatal' a little further down the road and as it was a 'Crime Scene' (if that's the right term) the road would be closed for some time for it to be investigated.
For those that know the area it was at the bottom of the steep hill just after Bavistocks motel near Methyr. Her instruction was to turn around and find an alternative route.
Pointed out politely that although it was a 3 lane road it wasn't wide enough to turn the Merc and caravan around - back came the reply "You'll have to reverse back up to the top then".
Now this is about 3 miles up a steep hill at night with moderatley heavy rain and mist. Pointed out this wasn't a good idea with the chance of traffic, including HGV's heading towards me at a rate of knots.
"Can't you unhitch the caravan and turn it around manually"
"Not a good idea on a steep hill - caravan brakes aren't really designed to work in reverse, so there's no guarentee I'll be able to hold it even with you helping". (a bit of joke as she must have been all of about 6.5 stone).
By this time a string of traffic had built up behind me and was busy practicing their 3 point turns.
Eventually one of the Trafpol guys walked up, took one look and said,
"Hang on there 10 mins and we'll get you through - it's a bit nasty down there try not to let the kids see"
10 minutes later we were on our way.
The moral of the story and answer to the orignal post - depends on who is doing the instructing. No disrespect to this young WPC, but she had absolutely no concept of the problem or the possible dangers in her 'requests' but once an experienced Officer came along ........
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