Electronic tags for cars as congestion charge spreads out...
Discussion
Plans to make 'Tagging' more acceptable IMHO......
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/arti
Electronic tags for cars as congestion charge spreads out
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
THE congestion charge is to be extended to busy roads across London under plans to use electronic tags in windscreens to monitor vehicle movements.
Thousands of gantries will be erected over roads to detect passing vehicles and automatically deduct payment from the driver’s pre-paid account.
Transport for London plans to extend the new charging system to congested urban centres, Thames bridges and strategic routes across London as well as to the existing zone and its western extension.
Drivers would be charged different rates according to the time of day, with the top rate reserved for morning and evening peak periods.
Charges would also vary according to the size of the vehicle, with drivers of cars that cause more pollution paying more. Drivers travelling against the main flow of traffic, such as night workers leaving Central London in the morning, would receive a discount on the existing £8 flat rate.
The credit-card-sized tags would cost about £5 and could be topped up by direct debit. Drivers could pay using existing methods, but would not benefit from the cheaper rates.
Motorists who chose tags would also no longer have to remember to pay the charge. Most of the 5,000 drivers a day who incur £50 fines at present are thought to have forgotten to pay or not to have known that they were liable.
Last month TfL began a six-month trial involving 500 buses, vans and council vehicles with tags. It has also installed 19 gantries in South London between Southwark Bridge and Tower Bridge. The gantries contain beacons which detect the tags and cameras to catch those fail to pay.
Initial results indicate the technology is working well and TfL hopes to introduce it across Central London in 2009, when it renews the contract for running the congestion charge.
TfL intends to begin to use the system in other congested parts of London from 2010. It has identified “key centres”, which it believes might benefit from congestion charging. They are Harrow, Hounslow, Kingston, Sutton, Croydon, Bromley, Ilford, Romford and Wood Green.
The tag and beacon trials are being watched by other local authorities that are considering congestion charging, including Greater Manchester, West Midlands, Tyne & Wear, Cambridgeshire, Durham, Shrewsbury and a coalition of councils around Bristol and Bath.
TfL is also preparing for the more radical step of using satellite tracking to charge drivers for each mile they travel.
Michele Dix, TfL’s congestion charging director, said that satellite technology was not yet reliable, but was likely to be ready by 2014.
She said congestion across Greater London could be cut by 40 per cent by introducing charges of 60p a kilometre in the centre, 30p in inner London and 15p in outer London. A journey across the city, for example from Barnet to Epsom, would cost about £13.
Ms Dix said rising traffic levels made it essential to consider more sophisticated charging systems. The number of daily car journeys in London would grow by almost a million by 2025 unless charging was extended across the capital.
She admitted that the gantries for tag and beacon charging would add to the clutter of signals and posts on London’s streets. “We are working at making the posts more slender so that they look more like lamp posts,” she said.
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/arti
Electronic tags for cars as congestion charge spreads out
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
THE congestion charge is to be extended to busy roads across London under plans to use electronic tags in windscreens to monitor vehicle movements.
Thousands of gantries will be erected over roads to detect passing vehicles and automatically deduct payment from the driver’s pre-paid account.
Transport for London plans to extend the new charging system to congested urban centres, Thames bridges and strategic routes across London as well as to the existing zone and its western extension.
Drivers would be charged different rates according to the time of day, with the top rate reserved for morning and evening peak periods.
Charges would also vary according to the size of the vehicle, with drivers of cars that cause more pollution paying more. Drivers travelling against the main flow of traffic, such as night workers leaving Central London in the morning, would receive a discount on the existing £8 flat rate.
The credit-card-sized tags would cost about £5 and could be topped up by direct debit. Drivers could pay using existing methods, but would not benefit from the cheaper rates.
Motorists who chose tags would also no longer have to remember to pay the charge. Most of the 5,000 drivers a day who incur £50 fines at present are thought to have forgotten to pay or not to have known that they were liable.
Last month TfL began a six-month trial involving 500 buses, vans and council vehicles with tags. It has also installed 19 gantries in South London between Southwark Bridge and Tower Bridge. The gantries contain beacons which detect the tags and cameras to catch those fail to pay.
Initial results indicate the technology is working well and TfL hopes to introduce it across Central London in 2009, when it renews the contract for running the congestion charge.
TfL intends to begin to use the system in other congested parts of London from 2010. It has identified “key centres”, which it believes might benefit from congestion charging. They are Harrow, Hounslow, Kingston, Sutton, Croydon, Bromley, Ilford, Romford and Wood Green.
The tag and beacon trials are being watched by other local authorities that are considering congestion charging, including Greater Manchester, West Midlands, Tyne & Wear, Cambridgeshire, Durham, Shrewsbury and a coalition of councils around Bristol and Bath.
TfL is also preparing for the more radical step of using satellite tracking to charge drivers for each mile they travel.
Michele Dix, TfL’s congestion charging director, said that satellite technology was not yet reliable, but was likely to be ready by 2014.
She said congestion across Greater London could be cut by 40 per cent by introducing charges of 60p a kilometre in the centre, 30p in inner London and 15p in outer London. A journey across the city, for example from Barnet to Epsom, would cost about £13.
Ms Dix said rising traffic levels made it essential to consider more sophisticated charging systems. The number of daily car journeys in London would grow by almost a million by 2025 unless charging was extended across the capital.
She admitted that the gantries for tag and beacon charging would add to the clutter of signals and posts on London’s streets. “We are working at making the posts more slender so that they look more like lamp posts,” she said.
catso said:
Plans to make 'Tagging' more acceptable IMHO......
http://driving.timesonline.co.uk/arti
Electronic tags for cars as congestion charge spreads out
By Ben Webster, Transport Correspondent
THE congestion charge is to be extended to busy roads across London under plans to use electronic tags in windscreens to monitor vehicle movements.
Thousands of gantries will be erected over roads to detect passing vehicles and automatically deduct payment from the driver’s pre-paid account.
I think the lack of replies says it all really. We are no longer surprised or shocked by a revelation such as this. We no longer feel we have the power to stop it happening. Still Ken has to win another mayoral election between now and 2009 to make this happen. That still leaves two years for sanity to prevail. However, even if we stop this lunatic, there will be the Brown government behind him (by that time desparate for cash), and if we see off that miserable Scotish t
t, there will be the EU behind him. An unbroken chain of lunacy across a whole continent, it makes you feel rather depressed.
Not wanting to appear balanced towards the whole idea of the charge (having been nicked myself a while ago), but the driving idea behind this is to actually reduce the number of penalties, while keeping the daily charges regular. This will be an alternative means of payment, rather than a mandatory thing.
Its aimed at those people who travel in on a regular, but not necessarily daily basis, and is a fire and forget thing, i.e. you stick it in the windscreen, and then all of Newtboys charges dribble out of the bank account, rather than having to remember that you visited Trafalgar Square the other day.
Talking of which , I've just remembered I was in the Zone on Monday, and forgot to pay the charge. Feck, that's another £50.
Its aimed at those people who travel in on a regular, but not necessarily daily basis, and is a fire and forget thing, i.e. you stick it in the windscreen, and then all of Newtboys charges dribble out of the bank account, rather than having to remember that you visited Trafalgar Square the other day.
Talking of which , I've just remembered I was in the Zone on Monday, and forgot to pay the charge. Feck, that's another £50.
Surely that reduces the incentive not to drive through the area. If you don't feel the money going, then you are more likely not to change you habits.
So it's about axing the motorist, not reducing traffic.
We just pass these charges onto our customers. Live in London, pay more for deliveries.
So it's about axing the motorist, not reducing traffic.
We just pass these charges onto our customers. Live in London, pay more for deliveries.
What scares me is the paragraph about congestion charging in many other London boroughs.
Now, I don't live in greater London by choice, I have to for work. Most of my work is either teaching or performing.
When teaching, I have to drive between schools in many of the aforementioned places. You simply can't get round enough schools on public transport, so driving is mandatory.
When performing I very often finish late and have to get home. If not in central London the easiest and safest way of doing this is in the car.
If congestion charging in croydon / bromley / kingstone / sutton / etc. happens I shall either have to put up my charges (except the LEAs I work for won't pay any more, and the gigs won't pay any more as my pay hasn't increased in 10 years
) or I have to move away from London and consider a radical change in career 
Maybe I should just sign on, seems that's the way ahead these days...
Now, I don't live in greater London by choice, I have to for work. Most of my work is either teaching or performing.
When teaching, I have to drive between schools in many of the aforementioned places. You simply can't get round enough schools on public transport, so driving is mandatory.
When performing I very often finish late and have to get home. If not in central London the easiest and safest way of doing this is in the car.
If congestion charging in croydon / bromley / kingstone / sutton / etc. happens I shall either have to put up my charges (except the LEAs I work for won't pay any more, and the gigs won't pay any more as my pay hasn't increased in 10 years
) or I have to move away from London and consider a radical change in career Maybe I should just sign on, seems that's the way ahead these days...
randlemarcus said:
Not wanting to appear balanced towards the whole idea of the charge (having been nicked myself a while ago), but the driving idea behind this is to actually reduce the number of penalties, while keeping the daily charges regular. This will be an alternative means of payment, rather than a mandatory thing.
Its aimed at those people who travel in on a regular, but not necessarily daily basis, and is a fire and forget thing, i.e. you stick it in the windscreen, and then all of Newtboys charges dribble out of the bank account, rather than having to remember that you visited Trafalgar Square the other day.
Talking of which , I've just remembered I was in the Zone on Monday, and forgot to pay the charge. Feck, that's another £50.
This is a prime example of the sort of thinking that lets idiots like Livingstone get away with this. You've been done twice, but on balance you think it's a good thing. What would it take to make you think it was a bad thing?
Then somehow you missed the part of the article that talks about extending the charge. But hey it's getting easier to pay, so that's OK.
Listen people Livingstone is a dangerous lunatic, not some cuddly old eccentric, please take note of what's he's doing.
IanReid said:
This is a prime example of the sort of thinking that lets idiots like Livingstone get away with this. You've been done twice, but on balance you think it's a good thing. What would it take to make you think it was a bad thing?
Then somehow you missed the part of the article that talks about extending the charge. But hey it's getting easier to pay, so that's OK.
Listen people Livingstone is a dangerous lunatic, not some cuddly old eccentric, please take note of what's he's doing.
No, I never said that being done was a good thing. Being done was entirely my own fault for forgetting to pay, like an idiot. I'm quite aware of the Western Extension, and the Low Emissions extensions to the scheme.
Personally, as an individual, I'm not averse to clearing the roads of idiots, and quite like the M6 Toll as an excellent example of positive elitism. I'm not in favour of the whole CC thing, but am a realist. Whinging isnt going to make it disappear, and neither is voting Conservative. Its a moneyspinner, and here to stay. Get over it.
Maybe we should look at the alternative schemes for reducing the current and projected congestion in the big cities if no sort of additional control is put in place.
I stopped driving to London many years ago because it took so long to get anywhere and I now use the train and taxis/underground to get to meetings there. Some people have to drive in London and the costs of being in a static situation is much more costly that paying the congestion charge, but making some progress on a journey. Without some sort of anti-congestion measures then the big cities will just grind to a halt and that benefits no-one. What is needed is better public transport.
For myself, I have little time for 'Red Ken's' politics, but having said that at least some attempt had to be made to reduce the ntraffic density in Central London.
With the likely future traffic densities throughout the UK there can be litle surprise that some form of road pricing for mileage covered will come and the technology to enable this is in development. It's not 'if', it's 'when'. We may not like it, but it will happen as other personal controls also come into use like the ID cards with their bio-metric and other data implanted therein.
Population density and increasing wealth is the problem. Motoring has become affordable to the masses and the increase in personal vehicles can't be sustained.
What are the other alternatives if we don't like what's happening - a 'free for all' and total gridlock?
I stopped driving to London many years ago because it took so long to get anywhere and I now use the train and taxis/underground to get to meetings there. Some people have to drive in London and the costs of being in a static situation is much more costly that paying the congestion charge, but making some progress on a journey. Without some sort of anti-congestion measures then the big cities will just grind to a halt and that benefits no-one. What is needed is better public transport.
For myself, I have little time for 'Red Ken's' politics, but having said that at least some attempt had to be made to reduce the ntraffic density in Central London.
With the likely future traffic densities throughout the UK there can be litle surprise that some form of road pricing for mileage covered will come and the technology to enable this is in development. It's not 'if', it's 'when'. We may not like it, but it will happen as other personal controls also come into use like the ID cards with their bio-metric and other data implanted therein.
Population density and increasing wealth is the problem. Motoring has become affordable to the masses and the increase in personal vehicles can't be sustained.
What are the other alternatives if we don't like what's happening - a 'free for all' and total gridlock?
Cooperman said:
Maybe we should look at the alternative schemes for reducing the current and projected congestion in the big cities if no sort of additional control is put in place.
I stopped driving to London many years ago because it took so long to get anywhere and I now use the train and taxis/underground to get to meetings there. Some people have to drive in London and the costs of being in a static situation is much more costly that paying the congestion charge, but making some progress on a journey. Without some sort of anti-congestion measures then the big cities will just grind to a halt and that benefits no-one. What is needed is better public transport.
For myself, I have little time for 'Red Ken's' politics, but having said that at least some attempt had to be made to reduce the ntraffic density in Central London.
With the likely future traffic densities throughout the UK there can be litle surprise that some form of road pricing for mileage covered will come and the technology to enable this is in development. It's not 'if', it's 'when'. We may not like it, but it will happen as other personal controls also come into use like the ID cards with their bio-metric and other data implanted therein.
Population density and increasing wealth is the problem. Motoring has become affordable to the masses and the increase in personal vehicles can't be sustained.
What are the other alternatives if we don't like what's happening - a 'free for all' and total gridlock?
Eh? You stopped driving because it took too long. The greater the congestion, the more folk make that choice. By this mechanism, congestion self regulates. Total gridlock would require folk who thought it was a good idea to sit in total gridlock. Since there are none of those total gridlock is just a lie.
Gridlock for London said:
Charges would also vary according to the size of the vehicle, with drivers of cars that cause more pollution paying more.
Since when did the size of your car mean it polluted more/less? I feel an anti 4x4 sandal wearer is at work here.
For the pedants: Lotus Elise 111R = 208 CO2g/km....Freelander TD4 = 205 CO2g/km
Cooperman said:Voting in a government that doesn't artificially engineer congestion in to the road network. Remove all the chicanes and road humps, invest in the infrastructure and get the country moving again.
What are the other alternatives if we don't like what's happening - a 'free for all' and total gridlock?
Today I was driving at 35MPH on a
A road all because some asshole in a truck didn't want to get scammed and everyone bunched up behind him 
Einion Yrth said:I'm sure you're not.... Unless you chose to drive a truck at 35 on a NSL road without pulling over... In which case
Today I was driving at 35MPH on a
Seems a bit harsh, if I were driving a truck in one of those areas that rigidly enforce HGV40 I think I'd probably be a bit wary too, and I'm no asshole.
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