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This is a resume for comparison of a week in Manhattan, staying in an apartment 1 block away from Ground Zero and travelling all over the city.
Population of Scotland :- 5.5 million.
Population of NY City :- 6 million.
Nos. commuting daily in Glasgow alone :- 140,000
Nos. commuting daily in NY City :- 3.5 million (Yes, really!)
No. of major traffic jams encountered in NYC in 1 week :- Zero.
No. of major traffic jams encountered in Glasgow in 1 day :- 4 Minimum guaranteed (traffic stopping)
No. of speed cameras in NYC :- Zero.
No. of speed cameras in Glasgow :- Lost count.
No. of fully marked, highly visible Police cars on the streets in Glasgow :- Seldom seen.
No. of fully marked, highly visible Police cars on the streets in NYC manned by two very polite but "don't
with me" cops :- Lost count.
No. of highly equipped, unmarked cars practising entrapment on traffic duty in Scotland :- dozens, maybe even hundreds.
No. of highly equipped, unmarked cars practising entrapment on traffic duty in NYC :- Absolute zero.
Accidents of a major or minor degree including very minor scrapes observed in a whole week in Manhattan :- Absolute zero.
Accidents of a major or minor degree including very minor scrapes on a daily basis in Scotland :- dozens and dozens!
Standard of lane discipline in NYC :- Virtually 100%
Standard of lane discipline in Scotland :- It doesn't exist, utter chaos!
No. of near misses, swerves, panic braking, totally incompetent dangerous drivers observed in a week in NYC :- Almost none.
No. of near misses, swerves, panic braking, totally incompetent dangerous drivers observed in a week in Glasgow alone :- Every 400-500 yards in urban areas.
No. of ignorant, loud-mouthed, semi-literate, drunken yobs observed in NYC outside pubs, clubs, etc at night :- None whatsoever.
No. of ignorant, loud-mouthed, semi-literate, drunken yobs observed in Glasgow outside pubs, clubs, etc at night :- Lost count.
There is an old Buddhist philosophy that states that out of every dreadful or seemingly evil act there is an equally positive and beneficial response.
9/11 changed the people of NYC, and in particular Manhattan for ever. What matters to them now are the truly important things in life.
Combined with the totally outstanding efforts and guts of Mayor Rudolph Giuliani who came to office in 1994 with his zero tolerance policy, not against motorists or other public groups, but targetting drug dealers, traffickers and gangsters, ridding the streets of menace, New York is now a fine place to visit. Some of you may remember him covered in ash helping the Fire Officers pull bodies from the carnage that had been the twin towers until he himself succumbed to exhaustion.
Forgive me for being ungracious, but under no stretch of the imagination could I ever envisage Ken Livingstone doing the same: his target is the motorist.
This is a city of people who can truly attest to utter humility and tragedy most of us thankfully will never have to endure.
I would put it to you that a worthy exercise would be to parade all those who organise, endorse, and profit from the persecution of the British motorist past the huge cavity that is ground zero and let them truly search their consciences for what matters in life.
I would further consider a second and even worthier exercise would be to parade all Islamic schoolchildren past the same cavity and say to them, "Look children, this is what happens when you close your mind to all things outside your religion and let others with evil intent possess you".
Population of Scotland :- 5.5 million.
Population of NY City :- 6 million.
Nos. commuting daily in Glasgow alone :- 140,000
Nos. commuting daily in NY City :- 3.5 million (Yes, really!)
No. of major traffic jams encountered in NYC in 1 week :- Zero.
No. of major traffic jams encountered in Glasgow in 1 day :- 4 Minimum guaranteed (traffic stopping)
No. of speed cameras in NYC :- Zero.
No. of speed cameras in Glasgow :- Lost count.
No. of fully marked, highly visible Police cars on the streets in Glasgow :- Seldom seen.
No. of fully marked, highly visible Police cars on the streets in NYC manned by two very polite but "don't
with me" cops :- Lost count. No. of highly equipped, unmarked cars practising entrapment on traffic duty in Scotland :- dozens, maybe even hundreds.
No. of highly equipped, unmarked cars practising entrapment on traffic duty in NYC :- Absolute zero.
Accidents of a major or minor degree including very minor scrapes observed in a whole week in Manhattan :- Absolute zero.
Accidents of a major or minor degree including very minor scrapes on a daily basis in Scotland :- dozens and dozens!
Standard of lane discipline in NYC :- Virtually 100%
Standard of lane discipline in Scotland :- It doesn't exist, utter chaos!
No. of near misses, swerves, panic braking, totally incompetent dangerous drivers observed in a week in NYC :- Almost none.
No. of near misses, swerves, panic braking, totally incompetent dangerous drivers observed in a week in Glasgow alone :- Every 400-500 yards in urban areas.
No. of ignorant, loud-mouthed, semi-literate, drunken yobs observed in NYC outside pubs, clubs, etc at night :- None whatsoever.
No. of ignorant, loud-mouthed, semi-literate, drunken yobs observed in Glasgow outside pubs, clubs, etc at night :- Lost count.
There is an old Buddhist philosophy that states that out of every dreadful or seemingly evil act there is an equally positive and beneficial response.
9/11 changed the people of NYC, and in particular Manhattan for ever. What matters to them now are the truly important things in life.
Combined with the totally outstanding efforts and guts of Mayor Rudolph Giuliani who came to office in 1994 with his zero tolerance policy, not against motorists or other public groups, but targetting drug dealers, traffickers and gangsters, ridding the streets of menace, New York is now a fine place to visit. Some of you may remember him covered in ash helping the Fire Officers pull bodies from the carnage that had been the twin towers until he himself succumbed to exhaustion.
Forgive me for being ungracious, but under no stretch of the imagination could I ever envisage Ken Livingstone doing the same: his target is the motorist.
This is a city of people who can truly attest to utter humility and tragedy most of us thankfully will never have to endure.
I would put it to you that a worthy exercise would be to parade all those who organise, endorse, and profit from the persecution of the British motorist past the huge cavity that is ground zero and let them truly search their consciences for what matters in life.
I would further consider a second and even worthier exercise would be to parade all Islamic schoolchildren past the same cavity and say to them, "Look children, this is what happens when you close your mind to all things outside your religion and let others with evil intent possess you".
"I would further consider a second and even worthier exercise would be to parade all Islamic schoolchildren past the same cavity and say to them, "Look children, this is what happens when you close your mind to all things outside your religion and let others with evil intent possess you".
What the Fcuk does Islam Have to do with the amount of Traffic on UK Roads?
Your on the wrong Forum for that sort of statement!
But i think i need to clear something up for you,
Read The Following Carefully!
ISLAM DOES NOT CONDONE TERRORISM!
just because one group of people that take things to the extream does not mean that they represent the whole religion,group,gender,cast or colour!
It annoys me that people think that everyone will follow suit in islam because the events of 9-11 were publiciised to such an extent that the message was relayed all over the world.
There are extreemests all over the world including the Uk For example The BNP and the IRA Who both have done enough damage For a cause's they belive in. Yet No one seems to be shouting murder everytime they see someone from ireland do they?
What the Fcuk does Islam Have to do with the amount of Traffic on UK Roads?
Your on the wrong Forum for that sort of statement!
But i think i need to clear something up for you,
Read The Following Carefully!
ISLAM DOES NOT CONDONE TERRORISM!
just because one group of people that take things to the extream does not mean that they represent the whole religion,group,gender,cast or colour!
It annoys me that people think that everyone will follow suit in islam because the events of 9-11 were publiciised to such an extent that the message was relayed all over the world.
There are extreemests all over the world including the Uk For example The BNP and the IRA Who both have done enough damage For a cause's they belive in. Yet No one seems to be shouting murder everytime they see someone from ireland do they?
I was in New York for a week last month, and didn't see much of the wide open freeways - It was nose to tail traffic jams down most of the avenues in Manhattan.
It was quiter on Sundays, as you would expect.
We found it quicker to walk or go on the subway than get in a taxi.
Going through the Brooklyn tunnel was a crawl, alternating with standstill for several minutes.
Jumping the lights was endemic too.
Still, it's a great city and will loved it!
Koenig
It was quiter on Sundays, as you would expect.
We found it quicker to walk or go on the subway than get in a taxi.
Going through the Brooklyn tunnel was a crawl, alternating with standstill for several minutes.
Jumping the lights was endemic too.
Still, it's a great city and will loved it!
Koenig
ya55erm said:
some fair comments
By the way ya55erm, did you ever go through with your threat (only joking) to join the BiB. I know you said you were interested after the Bradford Shooting. Let's face it, Lambo et al can do with someone sensible joining them!!!!
IOLAIRE - it's not the NYC I remember, but it may have changed. Are you sure you are not a tad blinkered?
ya55erm said:
"I would further consider a second and even worthier exercise would be to parade all Islamic schoolchildren past the same cavity and say to them, "Look children, this is what happens when you close your mind to all things outside your religion and let others with evil intent possess you".
What the Fcuk does Islam Have to do with the amount of Traffic on UK Roads?
Your on the wrong Forum for that sort of statement!
But i think i need to clear something up for you,
Read The Following Carefully!
ISLAM DOES NOT CONDONE TERRORISM!
just because one group of people that take things to the extream does not mean that they represent the whole religion,group,gender,cast or colour!
It annoys me that people think that everyone will follow suit in islam because the events of 9-11 were publiciised to such an extent that the message was relayed all over the world.
There are extreemests all over the world including the Uk For example The BNP and the IRA Who both have done enough damage For a cause's they belive in. Yet No one seems to be shouting murder everytime they see someone from ireland do they?
Awwww shaddap!
I was in NYC for a few days last year and there were horrendous traffic jams to and from LaGuardia. We also saw several bumps in NY, although it seems miraculous that huge quantities of people are not mown down by Cabs driving at high speeds across junctions.
The sheer number of Police officers on the streets is amazing.
The sheer number of Police officers on the streets is amazing.
You might have added,
Number of police who were out in the street, on foot, actively working to facilitate traffic flow:
NYC - hundreds of people, including scores whose full-time job is to do just that,
All of UK - nary a one, on most days.
In the UK all the time one hears government propaganda about the societal costs of congestion, which are used as the justification to force people out of cars and onto the wretched public transport 'system'.
When there is a specific, sometimes desperate need for it, how often do authorities bother to get traffic moving via the insertion of a walking, talking human being in uniform who will direct drivers? Almost never.
Number of police who were out in the street, on foot, actively working to facilitate traffic flow:
NYC - hundreds of people, including scores whose full-time job is to do just that,
All of UK - nary a one, on most days.
In the UK all the time one hears government propaganda about the societal costs of congestion, which are used as the justification to force people out of cars and onto the wretched public transport 'system'.
When there is a specific, sometimes desperate need for it, how often do authorities bother to get traffic moving via the insertion of a walking, talking human being in uniform who will direct drivers? Almost never.
turbobloke said:
Ah, it's nice to be black!!
Hmmm careful Iolaire that could be a tad controversial
Yeah, I like that Bernard!
OK, the words myopic and pedantic spring to mind for some inexplicable reason.
The script here is part light hearted, part serious.
My intention is to draw the comparison between a sparsely populated country like Scotland and the New Yorkers and how they can manage their city in a way that puts us utterly to shame.
Yes, of course there are traffic jams in NYC, but they are spasmodic due to unpredictable forces and are dealt with in as efficient a manner as possible.
We have monstrous, escalating traffic problems that are never, I repeat never dealt with in anything approaching an efficient manner. We have traffic authorities committing acts of incompetence bordering on the criminal and a police force wholly reluctant to intervene. I have lost count of the number of times I have insisted the police charge the particular authority at blame on countless occasions and even went as far as to supply them with the contravention.
Never once would they pursue it. Why not?
To all you budding "peaceful" Muslims.
Whether you like it or not, religious extremism is at the heart of almost all the world's conflicts, and always has been. At the turn of the last millenium the Vatican was at it hell for leather with it's pious and utterly wicked inquisitions: this century it is the turn of Islam.
There is only one cure for ignorance at it's worst: education, particularly of children.
They absolutely have to grow with open, independent minds or evil takes over.
If you are truly in search of peace as a Muslim, your responsibility is to ensure that your children are educated in all manners of thought and religion enabling them to make their choice as adults to either accept or reject what your religion offers them.
Of course as a Muslim, you are unable to permit your children to learn the ways of the Infidel; what an unfortunate enigma.
Incidentally, you are truly missing the script of the post if you see it simply as a moan about traffic flow. It is about a people who can recover in the most spectacular fashion from what has to have been one of the world's greatest disasters and rebuild their city with the rule of law intact, enhanced and aimed primarily at those who would be criminal.
All of the points are about the integration of practical ideas in a society.
Our society is bereft of practicality, common sense and positive mentality.
The rule of law is discussed with frequency on this forum.
>> Edited by IOLAIRE on Sunday 26th February 01:19
The reaction to road usage in the UK seems to be "make it worse by adding speed humps, chicanes, traffic islands and so on".
Moronic beyond belief.
...and the next plan? "Road charging"! Naturally, it involves wringing more money out of the driver. As if we don't already have road charging in (high) fuel prices.
How the hell does the UK manage to get absolutely everything wrong and how does the public take up the chuff every time the government's reaction to increase cost and inconvenience without so much as a whimper?
Moronic beyond belief.
...and the next plan? "Road charging"! Naturally, it involves wringing more money out of the driver. As if we don't already have road charging in (high) fuel prices.
How the hell does the UK manage to get absolutely everything wrong and how does the public take up the chuff every time the government's reaction to increase cost and inconvenience without so much as a whimper?
Well, that's somewhat at odds with my experience of Manhattan, which was basically that drivers don't look, use their horns as indicators, lane discipline is optional, red lights mean "stop if you like", and every taxi driver gets Nectar points for running pedestrians over. I assume you didn't see a traffic jam because your eyes were closed. NYC is famous for its chockablock roads in the morning and evening.
On the I-95 freeway, I saw more tailgating, dodgy overtaking (people kicking down in their slushboxes, only for somewhat less power than they were expecting to be provided) and flat-out dangerous driving (almost exclusively, I think, down to a lack of observation - "I'll just overtake this car... WHERE DID THAT OTHER CAR COME FROM?!" than I've ever seen on even the busiest stretches of the UK motorway network: this is not to say that driving standards on the M25 are particularly good, but rather to point out that American freeway driving is particularly bad.
There's a lot to like in America, but driving on the east coast isn't on the list.
On the I-95 freeway, I saw more tailgating, dodgy overtaking (people kicking down in their slushboxes, only for somewhat less power than they were expecting to be provided) and flat-out dangerous driving (almost exclusively, I think, down to a lack of observation - "I'll just overtake this car...
WHERE DID THAT OTHER CAR COME FROM?!" than I've ever seen on even the busiest stretches of the UK motorway network: this is not to say that driving standards on the M25 are particularly good, but rather to point out that American freeway driving is particularly bad. There's a lot to like in America, but driving on the east coast isn't on the list.
koenig999 said:
Still, it's a great city and will loved it!
Koenig
I personaly thought it was a dirty, dilapidated city and the state of the roads was shocking. They can't stop traffic long enough to fix the tarmac so they slap down huge metal plates over the pot holes which turn into skating rinks when it rains. I guess that doesn't matter so much as the traffic was gridlocked when I was there anyway.
MR2Mike said:
Still, it's a great city and will loved it!
Koenig
I personaly thought it was a dirty, dilapidated city and the state of the roads was shocking. They can't stop traffic long enough to fix the tarmac so they slap down huge metal plates over the pot holes which turn into skating rinks when it rains. I guess that doesn't matter so much as the traffic was gridlocked when I was there anyway.
That jibes more-or-less exactly with my experience of the place last summer. I was, frankly, amazed at just how mucky the place was. And how BIG. Stiff neck the first day.
I've been to New York for a week in each of the past two years. Yes the roads are bad, yes the rush hour traffic is slow moving (where in the UK isn't it) but at other times it moves freely, if at speed. Try that in most cities in this country at ANY time of day and you'd see a difference.
I expect that given the volume of motorised transport through NYC streets and avenues on any working day, statistically speaking there are remarkably few collisions and even fewer deaths.
It's interesting to see pedestrains walk to the only purpose made crossing points situated at the intersections. I can't see our pedstrians showing that much disciplne on our streets. They cross wherever the mood takes them.
When asked why cabs seem to sound their horns so much during the journey, my cab driver replied "It gives the customer the impression that I'm trying my best to get him through the traffic as fast as possible".
I was also amazed by how many cyclists brave the busy roads in NYC and people with handcarts.
I would dispute NYC being described as dirty, it was VERY clean and tidy on both of my week long visits, if you want to see dirty and scruffy come to Bath in North East Somerset.
New York is a helluva place to visit and stays in your memories forever, and no I'm not an American.
I expect that given the volume of motorised transport through NYC streets and avenues on any working day, statistically speaking there are remarkably few collisions and even fewer deaths.
It's interesting to see pedestrains walk to the only purpose made crossing points situated at the intersections. I can't see our pedstrians showing that much disciplne on our streets. They cross wherever the mood takes them.
When asked why cabs seem to sound their horns so much during the journey, my cab driver replied "It gives the customer the impression that I'm trying my best to get him through the traffic as fast as possible".
I was also amazed by how many cyclists brave the busy roads in NYC and people with handcarts.
I would dispute NYC being described as dirty, it was VERY clean and tidy on both of my week long visits, if you want to see dirty and scruffy come to Bath in North East Somerset.
New York is a helluva place to visit and stays in your memories forever, and no I'm not an American.
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