BIB help needed please over NIP
Discussion
Got a NIP through the post today for 3 offences:
-Driving without due care and attention
-Failing to stop after collision
-Failing to report collision
Supposedly happened last Thursday - only it didn't. Or at least it didn't in my car or with me driving (I am the only driver of the vehicle).
The car details are correct as being mine, only at that time I was working.
I have just checked my work schedule which shows no entries for that date - i.e. I was in the office. I will be able to get my boss to confirm that, but apart from that I have no other proof I was in the office. I guess I could look at server logs to see what time I logged in, etc, but doesn't prove it was me, so the word of my boss is the only proof I have.
So, someone has either noted down the number plate incorrectly or got some wrong details, what happens next?
-Driving without due care and attention
-Failing to stop after collision
-Failing to report collision
Supposedly happened last Thursday - only it didn't. Or at least it didn't in my car or with me driving (I am the only driver of the vehicle).
The car details are correct as being mine, only at that time I was working.
I have just checked my work schedule which shows no entries for that date - i.e. I was in the office. I will be able to get my boss to confirm that, but apart from that I have no other proof I was in the office. I guess I could look at server logs to see what time I logged in, etc, but doesn't prove it was me, so the word of my boss is the only proof I have.
So, someone has either noted down the number plate incorrectly or got some wrong details, what happens next?
The fact that you have got a NOIP doesn't automatically mean you are to be prosecuted. It allows BiB to make enquires into the incident and which from the offences listed will be over 14 days before these are completed. By serving the NoIp then they can take action if the evidence discloses a due care offence. The other two offences do not need a NOIP.
A collision is mentioned. If an accident is involved then a NOIP is not required in relation to an offence if at the time,or immediately afterwards an accident occurred owing to the presence of a vehicle on a road. This doesn't necessarily mean an actual collision involving your vehicle but it may indirectly involved but the cause of a collision. However it appears some forces do send a NOIP out as a safeguard to remove any blurring.
The offences listed are fairly serious and I would envisage that you will be required to be interviewed by BiB to get your story of events. You say you were no where near so start amassing your evidence from records, workmates, boss etc to disprove any allegation.
It may well be also that you have a form requesting that you as Reg keeper name the driver. Failure to do so within 28 days is an offence.
If you haven't heard anything more in the next 8 - 10 days and evidence turns up as mentioned above then I would consider contacting the Office that sent the NOIP for more details of the incident.
AS you say there could be an error in the Reg Number taken but as pointed out before serious offences involved here so do not take matters lightly and keep RECORDS of all that takes place.
dvd
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Wednesday 8th March 20:41
A collision is mentioned. If an accident is involved then a NOIP is not required in relation to an offence if at the time,or immediately afterwards an accident occurred owing to the presence of a vehicle on a road. This doesn't necessarily mean an actual collision involving your vehicle but it may indirectly involved but the cause of a collision. However it appears some forces do send a NOIP out as a safeguard to remove any blurring.
The offences listed are fairly serious and I would envisage that you will be required to be interviewed by BiB to get your story of events. You say you were no where near so start amassing your evidence from records, workmates, boss etc to disprove any allegation.
It may well be also that you have a form requesting that you as Reg keeper name the driver. Failure to do so within 28 days is an offence.
If you haven't heard anything more in the next 8 - 10 days and evidence turns up as mentioned above then I would consider contacting the Office that sent the NOIP for more details of the incident.
AS you say there could be an error in the Reg Number taken but as pointed out before serious offences involved here so do not take matters lightly and keep RECORDS of all that takes place.
dvd
>> Edited by Dwight VanDriver on Wednesday 8th March 20:41
A friend of mine got a letter from Plymouth police saying his car was involved in a similar incident in a Plymouth car park quoting his registration and 'black' Picasso which matched his car.
He had never been to Plymouth and both he and the car were in fact in Southampton at the time of the alleged incident and he had plenty of witnesses.
He phoned Plymouth police and explained the situation and after a while was told the car involved was actually a red Fiat Bravo. It appeares that the Police didn't do any Sherlock Holmes investigations and made no effort to find out why the "Red Fiat" had the reg of the Picasso, they just sent the letter to him as the registered keeper of the vehicle with registration given to them by a witness, apparently without thinking "hold on thats not a Fiat.. He never heard anything more about it.
He had never been to Plymouth and both he and the car were in fact in Southampton at the time of the alleged incident and he had plenty of witnesses.
He phoned Plymouth police and explained the situation and after a while was told the car involved was actually a red Fiat Bravo. It appeares that the Police didn't do any Sherlock Holmes investigations and made no effort to find out why the "Red Fiat" had the reg of the Picasso, they just sent the letter to him as the registered keeper of the vehicle with registration given to them by a witness, apparently without thinking "hold on thats not a Fiat.. He never heard anything more about it.
Thanks for the reply chaps,
No there is no damagae to the car, as my car was not involved in an incident/accident. I figured if it was a bad incident I would have had a visit by now, 6 days after the event.
I will be able to prove I was at work only by confirmation of my boss (there are only 3 of us there..), which is about 30 miles from the location of the collision, and also in the opposite direction of work from my home.
Attached is a driver/keeper statement form, I am the registered owner & only driver - I take it this needs to be filled in and returned regardless.
I guess taking photos of the car is next to pointless, as it doesn't prove anything other than the car is not damaged 6 days (7 tomorrow) after the incident, but also I didn't think digital images are admissable in court.
Would I be best to contact the officer dealing by telephone tomorrow, or keep all communications on paper for the record?
No there is no damagae to the car, as my car was not involved in an incident/accident. I figured if it was a bad incident I would have had a visit by now, 6 days after the event.
I will be able to prove I was at work only by confirmation of my boss (there are only 3 of us there..), which is about 30 miles from the location of the collision, and also in the opposite direction of work from my home.
Attached is a driver/keeper statement form, I am the registered owner & only driver - I take it this needs to be filled in and returned regardless.
I guess taking photos of the car is next to pointless, as it doesn't prove anything other than the car is not damaged 6 days (7 tomorrow) after the incident, but also I didn't think digital images are admissable in court.
Would I be best to contact the officer dealing by telephone tomorrow, or keep all communications on paper for the record?
A few years ago i got a bunch of nice summonses for No Insurance, MOT, Licence, failing to produce etc...
Some scrote who clearly knew me had given my details to a TrafPol at a Stop Check, and i had a nice court date booked for me.
Now, not being the sort to take this lightly, i marched straight down to Chez plod and thus began 3 days of being fobbed off with promises of phone calls from the Officer concerned...
Eventually i got well & truly p****d off and went back to the Station...where i proceeded to inform the desk monkey that i wasn't leaving until i got answers. Lucky for me an Inspector happened to overhear me and made a couple of phone calls.
Like yourself i had solid evidence to prove my whereabouts on the day, signed daywork sheets from a Hospital i was working at and a letter from Hospital Security stating that they could provide CCTV tapes showing me on site.
Next morning i got a call from the Traffic Officer and had a very pleasant chat with him. He remembered pulling the scrote concerned and was satisfied it wasn't me mainly due to the fact that i can string a few words together to make a sentence whereas the knuckle-dragging junkie he stopped could not. The evidence wasn't needed.
Result. All sorted.
I'm sure it will all be sorted for you too
>> Edited by monkeyhanger on Wednesday 8th March 20:56
Some scrote who clearly knew me had given my details to a TrafPol at a Stop Check, and i had a nice court date booked for me.
Now, not being the sort to take this lightly, i marched straight down to Chez plod and thus began 3 days of being fobbed off with promises of phone calls from the Officer concerned...
Eventually i got well & truly p****d off and went back to the Station...where i proceeded to inform the desk monkey that i wasn't leaving until i got answers. Lucky for me an Inspector happened to overhear me and made a couple of phone calls.
Like yourself i had solid evidence to prove my whereabouts on the day, signed daywork sheets from a Hospital i was working at and a letter from Hospital Security stating that they could provide CCTV tapes showing me on site.
Next morning i got a call from the Traffic Officer and had a very pleasant chat with him. He remembered pulling the scrote concerned and was satisfied it wasn't me mainly due to the fact that i can string a few words together to make a sentence whereas the knuckle-dragging junkie he stopped could not. The evidence wasn't needed.
Result. All sorted.
I'm sure it will all be sorted for you too
>> Edited by monkeyhanger on Wednesday 8th March 20:56
OK here's the update:
I phoned the Process Section of the station given on the letter, the Officer Dealing is based at another station and her name should not have been on the paperwork.
The report is from an independent witness, who has not yet been interviewed, so the date, time & location given are not accurate.
I have managed to get CCTV footage of me entering the site on the day the incident occurred, but this is a copy, not the original - the tapes are only retained for 14 days, and any formal police request for the tape would not happen within this timeframe I am told. We are now 7 days after the incident.
I asked for an interview and to give a statement to the officer dealing with it, but was told there is no officer dealing with it, only the administration of criminal justice section, just call with the RTA ref.
I was also told it was pointless getting the vehicle inspected at a police station as it was 7 days after the incident, it could have been fixed by now, and doesn't prove a thing, plus there is no vehicle inspectorate at the station.
Surely anyone can do a visual check on a vehicle though?
So what's best now, try and get hold of the officer dealing at the wrong station who's name is on the paper work?
I phoned the Process Section of the station given on the letter, the Officer Dealing is based at another station and her name should not have been on the paperwork.
The report is from an independent witness, who has not yet been interviewed, so the date, time & location given are not accurate.
I have managed to get CCTV footage of me entering the site on the day the incident occurred, but this is a copy, not the original - the tapes are only retained for 14 days, and any formal police request for the tape would not happen within this timeframe I am told. We are now 7 days after the incident.
I asked for an interview and to give a statement to the officer dealing with it, but was told there is no officer dealing with it, only the administration of criminal justice section, just call with the RTA ref.
I was also told it was pointless getting the vehicle inspected at a police station as it was 7 days after the incident, it could have been fixed by now, and doesn't prove a thing, plus there is no vehicle inspectorate at the station.
Surely anyone can do a visual check on a vehicle though?
So what's best now, try and get hold of the officer dealing at the wrong station who's name is on the paper work?
Had a similar sort of thing happen a few years ago....
Knock Knock on the door one evening, there are two policemen outside, one giving my car (Sierra Cosworth) the once over.
"Are you the owner of vehicle reg Kxxx xxx?"
When I said that I was indeed the owner they replied "It has been reported as being used in a robbery on the xxth of February, can we have a word ?"
I just explained where the car had been parked on the evening in question (easy to remember 'cos it was my brothers stag do) and they went away happy, with the words "you don't look like you earn a living turning over post offices" falling on my relieved ears
Three days later Knock Knock on the door again.
"Are you the owner of vehicle with reg Kxxx xxx?" to which I replied "The neighbours will be talking now, twice in a week"
I explained about the previous visit & never heard anything about it again
>> Edited by stepej on Thursday 9th March 11:51
Knock Knock on the door one evening, there are two policemen outside, one giving my car (Sierra Cosworth) the once over.
"Are you the owner of vehicle reg Kxxx xxx?"
When I said that I was indeed the owner they replied "It has been reported as being used in a robbery on the xxth of February, can we have a word ?"
I just explained where the car had been parked on the evening in question (easy to remember 'cos it was my brothers stag do) and they went away happy, with the words "you don't look like you earn a living turning over post offices" falling on my relieved ears
Three days later Knock Knock on the door again.
"Are you the owner of vehicle with reg Kxxx xxx?" to which I replied "The neighbours will be talking now, twice in a week"
I explained about the previous visit & never heard anything about it again
>> Edited by stepej on Thursday 9th March 11:51
Dwight VanDriver said:
The offences listed are fairly serious and I would envisage that you will be required to be interviewed by BiB to get your story of events. You say you were no where near so start amassing your evidence from records, workmates, boss etc to disprove any allegation.
Surely the onus is on the police to amass sufficient evidence to prove our friend was involved, and if they cannot he must be presumed innocent.
I'm all for assisting the police with their enquiries, but they have yet not actually made any besides a computer generated form.....
More of an update - the officer dealing is the enquiry desk clerk.... whose name should not be on the piece of paper, especially under officer dealing, according to a friend who works at the same police station. There should be an officer name and a shoulder number, which there is not.
So there is no officer dealing, I am just told to use the RTA ref number and contact the administration department, but they cannot tell me anything about the collision as the witness has not been interviewed yet! So I am well and truly guilty until proven innocent, even there are no details of a collision!
I've got nothing to hide, but have bounced around 3 police stations all day trying to get hold of anyone who can sort it who is willing to put their name against it! I have made a numerous telephone calls lasting totalling nearly 2 hours being bounced around different departments & stations & people, and i'm still no further forward. It's really starting to take the mick now, especially as I am trying to co-operate and volunteer the vehicle to be inspected, me to be interviewed, or what the actual collision is as I have done nothing wrong, I am trying to prove my innocence!
So there is no officer dealing, I am just told to use the RTA ref number and contact the administration department, but they cannot tell me anything about the collision as the witness has not been interviewed yet! So I am well and truly guilty until proven innocent, even there are no details of a collision!
I've got nothing to hide, but have bounced around 3 police stations all day trying to get hold of anyone who can sort it who is willing to put their name against it! I have made a numerous telephone calls lasting totalling nearly 2 hours being bounced around different departments & stations & people, and i'm still no further forward. It's really starting to take the mick now, especially as I am trying to co-operate and volunteer the vehicle to be inspected, me to be interviewed, or what the actual collision is as I have done nothing wrong, I am trying to prove my innocence!
Alpha
Within the modern pro-active Police Service of today the total organisational capability is no longer demonstrated by a systemised management concept instead an optional third generation contigency applies in policing by Civilian Empowed Front Desk Personnel.
It would appear a functional logistical problem centered on a responsive policy capability relating to the manner in which a motor vehicle bearing identification back to you has been reported to CEFDP who using responsive digital potential has raised and forwarded NOIP to comply with the Law.
Systemised organisational time phase now becomes proactive in the compliant being passed to a Senior Grade Police Officer with Part II Osprey qualification for further enquiry. Unfortunately the organisation time phase may now take some considerable time due to functional digital inflexability while that Officer catches up entering crime reports, acc states, details of inside leg measurements onto the Force Computor which has a tendency to crash due to unresponsive cheap hardware. I would havew thought however that a parallel policy capability the Computer would have shown details of the Mounted Branch Officer (i.e. saddled)
Fear not for in the fullness of time and when the canteen runs out of doughnuts an apparition will (should) appear when the said total mangement potential will reach fruition and all things made clear.
....
In real life these things take time as following a complaint complainant and witnesses have to be interviewed and if necesssary statements taken and at a time fitting in with their life style and the shift pattern of the officer. If an offence is disclosed then the alleged offender will be interviewed and reported.
The NOIP is sent out as a reminder to an incident and to allow a driver to collate his thoughts instead of being bounced upon some 3- 4 months later when events could have been forgotten or just a blur in the past. Mistakes are made in what people record and at the end of the day the enquiry will show this. There would appear at this stage there is little or no more than you can do until being approached or a letter sent to you withdrawing the NOIP.
Regret but it now seem it is going to be a waiting game.....
dvd
Within the modern pro-active Police Service of today the total organisational capability is no longer demonstrated by a systemised management concept instead an optional third generation contigency applies in policing by Civilian Empowed Front Desk Personnel.
It would appear a functional logistical problem centered on a responsive policy capability relating to the manner in which a motor vehicle bearing identification back to you has been reported to CEFDP who using responsive digital potential has raised and forwarded NOIP to comply with the Law.
Systemised organisational time phase now becomes proactive in the compliant being passed to a Senior Grade Police Officer with Part II Osprey qualification for further enquiry. Unfortunately the organisation time phase may now take some considerable time due to functional digital inflexability while that Officer catches up entering crime reports, acc states, details of inside leg measurements onto the Force Computor which has a tendency to crash due to unresponsive cheap hardware. I would havew thought however that a parallel policy capability the Computer would have shown details of the Mounted Branch Officer (i.e. saddled)
Fear not for in the fullness of time and when the canteen runs out of doughnuts an apparition will (should) appear when the said total mangement potential will reach fruition and all things made clear.
....
In real life these things take time as following a complaint complainant and witnesses have to be interviewed and if necesssary statements taken and at a time fitting in with their life style and the shift pattern of the officer. If an offence is disclosed then the alleged offender will be interviewed and reported.
The NOIP is sent out as a reminder to an incident and to allow a driver to collate his thoughts instead of being bounced upon some 3- 4 months later when events could have been forgotten or just a blur in the past. Mistakes are made in what people record and at the end of the day the enquiry will show this. There would appear at this stage there is little or no more than you can do until being approached or a letter sent to you withdrawing the NOIP.
Regret but it now seem it is going to be a waiting game.....
dvd
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff