Discussion
I'm not talking about the chav's who fly around towns in there beat up nova's but what would the resident plod do if they came accross 2 cars side by side going at a reasonable speed on a deaserted duel carridge way from lights, racing, doing the quarter mile type thing, what action would you take?
Bit daft really.
Many times I've just got my boot down and *someone* else decides to try keep up. Am I then racing, or am I just making progress at my own pace, and this other person decides they want to keep up!
How could they prove that anyone was doing anything but making progress at speed (within reason for the conditions of course, ie, they'd happily ignore the single car doing the same thing)...
Dave
Many times I've just got my boot down and *someone* else decides to try keep up. Am I then racing, or am I just making progress at my own pace, and this other person decides they want to keep up!
How could they prove that anyone was doing anything but making progress at speed (within reason for the conditions of course, ie, they'd happily ignore the single car doing the same thing)...
Dave
Mr Whippy said:
Bit daft really.
To be involved in racing on the road
Mr Whippy said:
How could they prove that anyone was doing anything......
Dave
Do you understand the concept of a race?
If you saw something that looked like a race, would you say " Thats a race"?
That is all that is required. Racing can be dealt with by a Crown court in the right circumstances. Do you think that 12 people drawn from the general public might be able to form an opinion when two people or more appear to be in competition using some sort of speed whether they are running, swimming, or driving a car?
If the answer is yes, then you may well have the asnwer to the quetsion above.
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and walks like a duck, its a duck!
Years ago, my flat mate was coming back home from a weekend away when he found himself on a deserted M1 (2am-ish) with a ferrari alongside. His cobra won.
At least, that was the opinion of the constable who witnessed it. 3 points and £40 (I think it was back then) ... although I'm told that the BiB was very polite about it all and even had a good look at the V8.
At least, that was the opinion of the constable who witnessed it. 3 points and £40 (I think it was back then) ... although I'm told that the BiB was very polite about it all and even had a good look at the V8.
mg6b said:
Bit daft really.
To be involved in racing on the road
Mr Whippy said:
How could they prove that anyone was doing anything......
Dave
Do you understand the concept of a race?
If you saw something that looked like a race, would you say " Thats a race"?
That is all that is required. Racing can be dealt with by a Crown court in the right circumstances. Do you think that 12 people drawn from the general public might be able to form an opinion when two people or more appear to be in competition using some sort of speed whether they are running, swimming, or driving a car?
If the answer is yes, then you may well have the asnwer to the quetsion above.
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and walks like a duck, its a duck!
A race requires two competitors or more. If someone is pulling away at his own speed and sombody else decides to try and keep up then it's not a race IMO. A by-stander would look and see two cars accelerating and a lot of engine noise and form an opinion that it's a race when as far as the first driver is concerned it isn't. So should they both be prosecuted?
If I was to race someone in the Cerbera from a standstill, I'd be breaking the speed limit in around 5 seconds. Not much of a race is it?
Personally, I'm not in the 'speed kills' camp, more of a 'stupidity kills' brigade. Of the times I have witnessed people pushing each other and making progress, there tends to be one who over-steps the limit of their skills fairly quickly. I personally reckon alot of people have accidents as a result of these events.
I get alot of people trying to bait me when I'm out driving and the first thing I do is look at the age of the driver and then the car. If he looks vaguely chavvy or in a dodgy saxo, I don't even give them the benefit of seeing how quickly I can dissappear into the sunset. XKR or similar, then maybe on a straigt'ish known, safe road, we might have a little fun.
Personally, I'm not in the 'speed kills' camp, more of a 'stupidity kills' brigade. Of the times I have witnessed people pushing each other and making progress, there tends to be one who over-steps the limit of their skills fairly quickly. I personally reckon alot of people have accidents as a result of these events.
I get alot of people trying to bait me when I'm out driving and the first thing I do is look at the age of the driver and then the car. If he looks vaguely chavvy or in a dodgy saxo, I don't even give them the benefit of seeing how quickly I can dissappear into the sunset. XKR or similar, then maybe on a straigt'ish known, safe road, we might have a little fun.
In response to your Cerbera,
What would you think to a black corsa with some 16" alloys next to you?
Then when you put your foot down you realise that it will be with you to 80+ mph!
It did run a 12.5 second 1/4 mile
But in lightness of this post - everyone indluges in the traffic light/dual carriageway gp!
i totally agree though about people who have a lack of skill/responsibility, i had some chump in a fiesta nearly wipe me out once comign the opposite sideways
What would you think to a black corsa with some 16" alloys next to you?
Then when you put your foot down you realise that it will be with you to 80+ mph!
It did run a 12.5 second 1/4 mile
But in lightness of this post - everyone indluges in the traffic light/dual carriageway gp!
i totally agree though about people who have a lack of skill/responsibility, i had some chump in a fiesta nearly wipe me out once comign the opposite sideways
I've seen plenty of sleeper cars and yes I would probably be very suprised. If I spotted some poxy painted standard cast calipers under the same 16" wheels on tiny little discs I definitely wouldn't want to get involved! I just hope it's been modified to stop as well is it goes!
Scott
Scott
mg6b said:
Bit daft really.
To be involved in racing on the road
Mr Whippy said:
How could they prove that anyone was doing anything......
Dave
Do you understand the concept of a race?
If you saw something that looked like a race, would you say " Thats a race"?
That is all that is required. Racing can be dealt with by a Crown court in the right circumstances. Do you think that 12 people drawn from the general public might be able to form an opinion when two people or more appear to be in competition using some sort of speed whether they are running, swimming, or driving a car?
If the answer is yes, then you may well have the asnwer to the quetsion above.
If it looks like a duck, sounds like a duck and walks like a duck, its a duck!
"looks like"
Did anyone ever tell you looks can be deceiving. The brazillian entering the London tube train suffered badly from people going on what things appeared to be and were not!
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Racing#L
Wiki said:
A race is a competition of speed. The competitors in a race try to complete a given task in the shortest amount of time. Typically this involves traversing some distance, but it can be any other task involving speed.
Hmmmm, a competition of speed. Complete a given task in the shortest amount of time.
Considering most of these "competitions" have no given task, and neither competitor has agree'd on the "given task" before hand, it's quite difficult to call it a race?
If a McLaren F1 sets off from the lights at 2/10ths while I boot my car, the ensuing condition would be of stalemate acceleration (maybe), and perhaps "appear" to be a race, even though it is far from a race.
I just can't see how two un-initiated people who have never met before or after, and have no pre-determined goal/task, and not even acting as competitors or with a self-decided outcome of future events (except getting to their destination), can ever be said to be racing on the road.
Surely if several parties are making progress together there is nothing wrong with it as long as it is within the highway code, and is safe for the prevailing conditions...
The problem arises when the driving becomes dangerous because the speeds become excessive for the conditions, or the driving style agressive.
Be this through a competitive nature, or adrenaline rush, or through madness or whatever reason, the existing "dangerous driving" and "excessive speed" or "speeding" or "driving without due care (or attention)" can be used...
Infact the motorbike that hit me was probably "racing" the biker ahead who I had to initially move over for, but I didn't care, he was making swift progress and enjoying himself, it just eneded up beyond his limits, and was prosecuted fairly with driving without due care, and awarded 5 points and a fine!
The system already works if people mis-behave on the roads, no matter how you determine the above prosecutions and how they relate to one's driving, if they are not commiting any offence except "appearing" to be racing, then they are doing nothing wrong imho.
It's when they break the existing laws to prevent excessive speed/agressive driving etc that there is a problem imho.
Simply assuming someone is "racing" is wrong if they are indeed not and just making progress totally safely in the company of other motor vehicles perhaps not even on the other drivers minds!
Dave
>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Friday 10th March 00:01
The problem is 3rd party perception of muppet public not plod imho.
Some time ago on my way home after an earlys day I was making similar and legal progress as was a guy in a Caterham.
Didn't know each other, no agreement, just happened to be travelling at similar speeds on the same bit of road.
Of course it wasn't a race, Caterham vs daily snotter of a diesel estate?
The rub is that we were both making legalprogress past the usual camel train of 40 mph club members who dared on the NSL dual to extend themsleves to the heady heights of ,shock horror probe, 50 yes 50 mph, how we are both still alive is anybody's guess.
Anyway on this stretch of road after a brow and a roundabout the DC continues but now the muppet club, whilst maintaining their 45-50 mph always manage to spread themselves over both carriageways in anticipation of a right turn a mile and a bit up ahead.
Chummy in the Caterham, who had been driving quite sensibly until then, now lost the plot and barrelled it away into the distance swapping lanes several times in order to weave through the traffic and overtake on both right and left. Some rather dodgy driving in my opinion, of course I pegged it back as holding a following position on this stretch adds about 15/20 seconds to the overall journey and it just isn't worth it.
Suppose chummy had ended up creaming it?
What's the betting some self righteous twerp in the 45 mph club that we had despatched earlier along the way would go on to testify that we had been racing? I reckon fairly good chance the way things are today.
Some time ago on my way home after an earlys day I was making similar and legal progress as was a guy in a Caterham.
Didn't know each other, no agreement, just happened to be travelling at similar speeds on the same bit of road.
Of course it wasn't a race, Caterham vs daily snotter of a diesel estate?
The rub is that we were both making legalprogress past the usual camel train of 40 mph club members who dared on the NSL dual to extend themsleves to the heady heights of ,shock horror probe, 50 yes 50 mph, how we are both still alive is anybody's guess.
Anyway on this stretch of road after a brow and a roundabout the DC continues but now the muppet club, whilst maintaining their 45-50 mph always manage to spread themselves over both carriageways in anticipation of a right turn a mile and a bit up ahead.
Chummy in the Caterham, who had been driving quite sensibly until then, now lost the plot and barrelled it away into the distance swapping lanes several times in order to weave through the traffic and overtake on both right and left. Some rather dodgy driving in my opinion, of course I pegged it back as holding a following position on this stretch adds about 15/20 seconds to the overall journey and it just isn't worth it.
Suppose chummy had ended up creaming it?
What's the betting some self righteous twerp in the 45 mph club that we had despatched earlier along the way would go on to testify that we had been racing? I reckon fairly good chance the way things are today.
Finchy172 said:
In response to your Cerbera,
What would you think to a black corsa with some 16" alloys next to you?
Then when you put your foot down you realise that it will be with you to 80+ mph!
It did run a 12.5 second 1/4 mile
I'd think, no, not another CHAVMOBILE... Go way an play on the one way circut round the town centre, or the local ASDA carpark...
Then plod along at 70mph.
Mr F
Flat in Fifth said:
Chummy in the Caterham, who had been driving quite sensibly until then, now lost the plot and barrelled it away into the distance swapping lanes several times in order to weave through the traffic and overtake on both right and left. Some rather dodgy driving in my opinion, of course I pegged it back as holding a following position on this stretch adds about 15/20 seconds to the overall journey and it just isn't worth it.
Suppose chummy had ended up creaming it?
What's the betting some self righteous twerp in the 45 mph club that we had despatched earlier along the way would go on to testify that we had been racing? I reckon fairly good chance the way things are today.
Yep, that unfortunately would be the view. I believe that is why unless a *real offence* is commited then driving quickly with another car should be ignored, as long as they are doing it safely and not excessively/agressively, what is the problem?
I've often accelerated hard too, onto a straight off a roundabout, right lane on a national "duel" carriageway, and overtaken a few cars to find a numpty in lane 2 going 50mph who I have to stay behind and wait to pull across, and had an over-excitable BMW 318Ci driver come flying up our insides acting in a highly questionable manner. I acted safely as I would be a BMW or other car be there or not, it was the actions of the following car that were dangerous and in need of punishment, not mine also for being the trigger to said drivers over-exitable road manner!
Dave
If a traffic cop saw you, say, sitting at the lights alongside a friend in another car and you opened your window and said "last one to the pub's a cissy" or words to that effect, and then both cars took off on green with tyres smoking and alongside one another, you could expecgt to be done for 'Racing.....".
This happened to me in my then new Mini Cooper in 1964. Fortunately the cop was a friend of my buddy in the other car (another Cooper). It was in Dunstable along the Luton road. No, I'm not proud of it, but I was just 23 with a new Cooper.
Yes, we were stupid and very, very lucky to get away with it. Learned some more life skill that night!
This happened to me in my then new Mini Cooper in 1964. Fortunately the cop was a friend of my buddy in the other car (another Cooper). It was in Dunstable along the Luton road. No, I'm not proud of it, but I was just 23 with a new Cooper.
Yes, we were stupid and very, very lucky to get away with it. Learned some more life skill that night!
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff