80% SUPPORT FOR SPEED CAMERAS
Discussion
Do we all agree that 80% of people support speed cameras?
In my experience from looking at the results of independent polls, the exact opposite seems to be true. There's a good example on AOL's homepage today. The voters are people of all ages and from all walks of life.
Camera partnerships also consistently state that they have 70 - 80% public support! Do they really expect people to believe any of their statistics when they tell blatant lies like that?!
This thread was brought on be seeing the Wiltshire SCP sitting on motorway bridges on the M4 twice this week, which got me thinking very few people want them there, but still they are allowed to do it. Why does the majority opinion mean nothing?
Thames Valley Police said:
‘Everyone is against speed enforcement’ – wrong. 80% support camera enforcement. What does give the impression that the vast majority are against us is a vociferous minority who feel they should be above the law and allowed to go at a speed they deem appropriate, and a concerted media campaign.
Transport 2000 said:
A poll of Londoners showed that 75 per cent of people questioned thought there should be more speed cameras on roads where speeding is a problem.
DFT.gov.uk said:
Opinion polls generally indicate widespread support for speed cameras, although some polls do not. A recent 'poll of polls' by Transport 2000 - based on six different polls - shows that support for the use of speed cameras averages 74%.
In my experience from looking at the results of independent polls, the exact opposite seems to be true. There's a good example on AOL's homepage today. The voters are people of all ages and from all walks of life.
AOL poll today said:
Are there too many speed cameras?
Yes
24793
82%
No
4918
16%
Don't know
510
2%
Total Votes:
30221
Camera partnerships also consistently state that they have 70 - 80% public support! Do they really expect people to believe any of their statistics when they tell blatant lies like that?!
This thread was brought on be seeing the Wiltshire SCP sitting on motorway bridges on the M4 twice this week, which got me thinking very few people want them there, but still they are allowed to do it. Why does the majority opinion mean nothing?
Good post.
It is interesting to see that all of the polls which end up being 'pro-camera' make no mention of the sample size, who were asked and what question was asked.
For example, if you stopped mums outside a school who walked their kids to school and asked them: 'Do you think we should put a camera here to stop people speeding and running over your kids?' you would get a great response.
What is very important is the motive behind getting the figures. If all you are after is to supporting your own theory and reporting a statistic which you know will never be challenged (ie if you work for a scamera partnership) all you do is ask a loaded question to a specific audience and stop the survey when you get the result you want. If you want an 80% figure to report go and ask 5 people who you know pretty much wont disagree with what you are saying.
>> Edited by justinp1 on Thursday 9th March 20:01
It is interesting to see that all of the polls which end up being 'pro-camera' make no mention of the sample size, who were asked and what question was asked.
For example, if you stopped mums outside a school who walked their kids to school and asked them: 'Do you think we should put a camera here to stop people speeding and running over your kids?' you would get a great response.
What is very important is the motive behind getting the figures. If all you are after is to supporting your own theory and reporting a statistic which you know will never be challenged (ie if you work for a scamera partnership) all you do is ask a loaded question to a specific audience and stop the survey when you get the result you want. If you want an 80% figure to report go and ask 5 people who you know pretty much wont disagree with what you are saying.
>> Edited by justinp1 on Thursday 9th March 20:01
Scamera Partnership sponsored survey asks....
Do you think Speed cameras are a good idea if they reduce speeds leading to a reduction in accidents?
Eighty percent of respondents say 'OK, I'd go for that'
Flawed SP logic publishes result as '80% support for scameras'
Any survey can be twisted to support the view of those who commission it. The scammers have been doing it for ages.
Why do you think they constantly feel the need to publish such skewed 'surveys'? It seems like one a month at the moment.
Answer - they are rooting around for a bit of credibility. Practically no-one likes cameras or the partnerships. Ask around, amongst your mates, colleagues etc. I did. Many quoted the '1/3rd of accidents' and 'if you hit me at 40mph' adverts but many also thought amateur photography was not a feasible way of achieveing safe roads, even if they thought that the biggest problem was speed and reduction of it was the only way to improve safety.
Do you think Speed cameras are a good idea if they reduce speeds leading to a reduction in accidents?
Eighty percent of respondents say 'OK, I'd go for that'
Flawed SP logic publishes result as '80% support for scameras'
Any survey can be twisted to support the view of those who commission it. The scammers have been doing it for ages.
Why do you think they constantly feel the need to publish such skewed 'surveys'? It seems like one a month at the moment.
Answer - they are rooting around for a bit of credibility. Practically no-one likes cameras or the partnerships. Ask around, amongst your mates, colleagues etc. I did. Many quoted the '1/3rd of accidents' and 'if you hit me at 40mph' adverts but many also thought amateur photography was not a feasible way of achieveing safe roads, even if they thought that the biggest problem was speed and reduction of it was the only way to improve safety.
Poll after poll shows a consistent 70% plus against speed cameras. The latest AOL poll, an earlier AOL poll, an MSN poll and another (again of over 30,000 people - I forget the name) - all over 70% against.
A larger number of voters and most likely a true reflection of feeling - unlike the polls run by those with a vested interest in cameras.
A larger number of voters and most likely a true reflection of feeling - unlike the polls run by those with a vested interest in cameras.
Thames Valley Police said:
What does give the impression that the vast majority are against us is a vociferous minority who feel they should be above the law and allowed to go at a speed they deem appropriate, and a concerted media campaign.
Fair point, but I can't accept their way of enforcing said activity.
It's not acceptable we EXCEED their limits when we deem appropriate, but it's totally fine that we can speed excessively within the limits, because they employ no system as extensively for checking said activity, which ultimately is much more dangerous than a safe speed for the conditions above the limit...
When you look at it like that you have to question their motive. If it was genuinely for road safety and for the safety of those they are to protect and serve, then they would not be doing what they are doing. They would be increasing TrafPol numbers, purely because camera's can't do anything to stop anything, all they can do is take pictures of an event.
Considering the huge numbers caught, the system isn't working, and that speeding is actually rife, and not causing any more harm than it ever has done.
Surely if that is the case focussing on it will achieve nothing!
Dave
>> Edited by Mr Whippy on Friday 10th March 00:26
Over past two year - local newspapers throughout North West (from Westmorland Gazette to Chester Chronicle) have had reader polls on subject und each one reveal
75% to 80% think far too many of these hidden cash cows und not noted any real difference to accident rates
depending on polls questions... but ist not tallying with scam speak ...
>> Edited by WildCat on Friday 10th March 07:20
75% to 80% think far too many of these hidden cash cows und not noted any real difference to accident rates
depending on polls questions... but ist not tallying with scam speak ...
>> Edited by WildCat on Friday 10th March 07:20
Balmoral Green said:
A poll of Londoners showed that 75 per cent of people questioned thought there should be more speed cameras on roads where speeding is a problem.
I wouldn't believe T2000 (better called the "Public Transport Operators Association"
if they said which was up. After all, their timetables are essentially lies, why should we believe anything else they say? Polls can easily be loaded, as demonstrated beautifully in ‘Yes, Prime Minister’
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 10th March 11:50
Yes Prime Minister said:
Bernard Wooley recalls being taught by Sir Humphrey Appleby how to manipulate opinion polls using ‘commitment consistency’ as follows:
"The secret is that when the Man In The Street is approached by a nice attractive young lady with a clipboard he is asked a series of questions. Naturally the Man In The Street wants to make a good impression and doesn't want to make a fool of himself. So the market researcher asks questions designed to elicit consistent answers.
Humphrey demonstrated the system [that had been used for the Poll conducted by the Party] on me. ‘Mr Woolley, are you worried about the rise in crime among teenagers?’
‘Yes,’ I said.
‘Do you think there is a lack of discipline and vigorous training in our Comprehensive Schools?’
‘Yes.’
‘Do you think young people welcome some structure and leadership in their lives?’
‘Yes.’
‘Do they respond to a challenges?’
‘Yes.’
‘Might you be in favour of reintroducing National Service?’
‘Yes.’
Well, naturally I said yes. One could hardly have said anything else without looking inconsistent. Then what happens is that the Opinion Poll publishes only the last question and answer.
But of course, the reputable polls didn't conduct themselves like that. But there weren't too many of those. Humphrey suggested that we commission a new survey, not for the Party but for the Ministry of Defence. We did so. He invented the questions there and then: '
‘Mr Woolley, are you worried about the danger of war?’
‘Yes,’ I said, quite honestly.
‘Are you unhappy about the growth of armaments?’
‘Yes.’
‘Do you think there is a danger in giving young people guns and teaching them how to kill?’
‘Yes.’
‘Do you think it wrong to force people to take up arms against their will?’
‘Yes.’
‘Would you oppose the reintroduction of National Service?’
I'd said ‘Yes’ before I'd even realised it, d'you see?
Humphrey was crowing with delight. ‘You see, Bernard,’ he said to me ‘you're the perfect Balanced Sample.’ "
>> Edited by JonRB on Friday 10th March 11:50
james_j said:
Poll after poll shows a consistent 70% plus against speed cameras. The latest AOL poll, an earlier AOL poll, an MSN poll and another (again of over 30,000 people - I forget the name) - all over 70% against.
A larger number of voters and most likely a true reflection of feeling - unlike the polls run by those with a vested interest in cameras.
Sadly the AOL poll is likely to be just as inaccurate. A straw poll with a leading question will always draw those that feel particularly strongly about the issue. I would imagine that more people feel strongly about cameras in the negative than in the positive (unless they are sadists!!! ;-) ). Therefore people more likely to vote will be those against speed cameras. Those in favour or those not particularly arsed will just ignore the survey and get on with using the search engine, email, etc.
The only accurate poll would be one consisting of entirely non-leading questions completed by the entire population. Seeing as this is never going to practically happen (even the National Census is a bit of a joke really) then we can only assume polls will exhibit extremely vague trends in popular feeling.
JJ
JonRB said:
That's the trouble with polls and surveys. They only poll or survey the kind of person who would take part in a poll or survey. (Obviously)
So you have a skewed demographic right off and you're never going to get representative results.
I'm not sure sure these polls are that skewed - first off, they take no effort to take part in and secondly, they are not from motoring-related websites, and thirdly there is very large participation and from all around the country. A good mix.
jazzyjeff said:
Sadly the AOL poll is likely to be just as inaccurate. A straw poll with a leading question will always draw those that feel particularly strongly about the issue.
I don't think "Are there too many speed cameras?" is a leading question.
If you are pro speed camera (which according to thames valley 80% of people are), you aren't going to say "yes" to this poll. Maybe Thames valley polled outside the "Brake" offices at 5:30 one evening.
anonymous said:
[redacted]
Indeed now that I think about it you are correct. But even allowing for it being a leading question the results are still somewhat at odds with Thames Valley. Perhaps the correct statistic is that 70% of respondents surveyed are easily led into saying whatever we want.
jazzyjeff said:
Sadly the AOL poll is likely to be just as inaccurate. A straw poll with a leading question will always draw those that feel particularly strongly about the issue. I would imagine that more people feel strongly about cameras in the negative than in the positive (unless they are sadists!!! ;-) ). Therefore people more likely to vote will be those against speed cameras. Those in favour or those not particularly arsed will just ignore the survey and get on with using the search engine, email, etc.
Interestingly (or not!) the AOL polls on who is going to be evicted in celebrity TV shows etc are usually accurate.
With Speed Cameras views are to an extent polarised, those against them will vote as they feel a need to register a protest, those for them will vote to support their beliefs it those who dn;t care who won't vote!
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