Private rules on public roads?
Discussion
I'm hoping that DVD or another one of the many helpful current and former professionals on PH will answer this.
Today I approached an urban roundabout comprising four normal 90 degree exits. On the approach there were some road works visible at the RAB - cones, plastic barriers, etc. There were also two standard but temporary signs indicating that cars driving as I was were not allowed to take the third turning (i.e. to turn right). These signs sat on the asphalt and had the logo of a contractor stencilled on them.
Two minutes earlier I had come through the RAB from the other direction so I knew the form of the roadworks. There were no workers on the job today. Upon arriving at the RAB I was able to look down the forbidden exit to see that it was perfectly clear, and, indeed, the few cars approaching the RAB from other directions took that same exit; it appeared that there was no sign instructing them not to do so. The restriction appeared to apply only to vehicles travelling from my direction.
I went 3/4 around the RAB and took the forbidden exit myself, entirely harmlessly and uneventfully.
My question is: is it an offence to disobey a private contractor's road sign that is put in a public road in connection with a public job? Would such a sign only be mandatory if its form and location were in accordance with accepted guidelines?
I can see how, if I had disobeyed a private sign and caused a problem in doing so, I would bear greater responsibility for having ignored the advisory warning. If a sign isn't a LA sign, however, does its mere presence make its instruction inviolable, or is it only advisory?
Cheers.
Today I approached an urban roundabout comprising four normal 90 degree exits. On the approach there were some road works visible at the RAB - cones, plastic barriers, etc. There were also two standard but temporary signs indicating that cars driving as I was were not allowed to take the third turning (i.e. to turn right). These signs sat on the asphalt and had the logo of a contractor stencilled on them.
Two minutes earlier I had come through the RAB from the other direction so I knew the form of the roadworks. There were no workers on the job today. Upon arriving at the RAB I was able to look down the forbidden exit to see that it was perfectly clear, and, indeed, the few cars approaching the RAB from other directions took that same exit; it appeared that there was no sign instructing them not to do so. The restriction appeared to apply only to vehicles travelling from my direction.
I went 3/4 around the RAB and took the forbidden exit myself, entirely harmlessly and uneventfully.
My question is: is it an offence to disobey a private contractor's road sign that is put in a public road in connection with a public job? Would such a sign only be mandatory if its form and location were in accordance with accepted guidelines?
I can see how, if I had disobeyed a private sign and caused a problem in doing so, I would bear greater responsibility for having ignored the advisory warning. If a sign isn't a LA sign, however, does its mere presence make its instruction inviolable, or is it only advisory?
Cheers.
Complicated question - complicated answer (when were they ever simple?)
If the contractor has applied to the LA for a temporary traffic regulation order under the RTRA, then the sign (provided that it is a sign in accordance with the traffic signs manual) carries the same force as a permanent sign - ie in the case you mention, a round No Right Turn sign.
If there is no Order, of the sign is non-pstandard, then it doesn't - it is advisory only, so you wouldn't be nicked for disobeying the sign.
If, however, in the act of turning right, you were involved in an accident, then the fact that you had not fooolowed "advice" could count against you.
If the contractor has applied to the LA for a temporary traffic regulation order under the RTRA, then the sign (provided that it is a sign in accordance with the traffic signs manual) carries the same force as a permanent sign - ie in the case you mention, a round No Right Turn sign.
If there is no Order, of the sign is non-pstandard, then it doesn't - it is advisory only, so you wouldn't be nicked for disobeying the sign.
If, however, in the act of turning right, you were involved in an accident, then the fact that you had not fooolowed "advice" could count against you.
tvrgit said:As I suspected. And of course you won't know if they have applied unless you enquire, and you won't enquire unless you unexpectedly have a need to. And naturally it is in the contractors' interest to make their signs appear to conform, even if they do not
Complicated question - complicated answer (when were they ever simple?)
If the contractor has applied to the LA for a temporary traffic regulation order under the RTRA, then the sign (provided that it is a sign in accordance with the traffic signs manual) carries the same force as a permanent sign - ie in the case you mention, a round No Right Turn sign.
If there is no Order, of the sign is non-pstandard, then it doesn't - it is advisory only, so you wouldn't be nicked for disobeying the sign.
If, however, in the act of turning right, you were involved in an accident, then the fact that you had not fooolowed "advice" could count against you.
Thanks for the answer.
If the sign is a "no right turn" sign then TSRGD makes it clear that this sign may only be placed where is supports a valid Order restricting action.
Where it has been placed there without an order it should be removed by the LA/HA.
Incidentally we're going after some green 20 roundel signs in Bristol which both appear to be illegal and to prevent speed enforcement outside the schools where they are placed.
Where it has been placed there without an order it should be removed by the LA/HA.
Incidentally we're going after some green 20 roundel signs in Bristol which both appear to be illegal and to prevent speed enforcement outside the schools where they are placed.
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