Road Fund Licence question
Discussion
Oh dear V6GTO, what a tangled web thou weaves.
So as a resident of Spain you've operated a vehicle on UK plates and not imported it and operated on Spanish plates
Presumably you've not a homologation cert as not needed due to import from EU country, but you still need a standardisation cert, again preumably ignored.
Presumably you've not paid Spanish duties and taxes payable on import and registration, nor Spanish road tax from the municipality, and equally I bet you've not been paying anything to that mob in Swansea nor declared SORN.
Looking forward to the ping-pong with a tax disc thread.
There are very large books in UK and Spain that could be thrown at you. One things for sure when the Spanish end find out expect a large over reaction.....
Spain expects that as you are driving around on UK plates its a temporary import because because and that you are paying your dues to Gordon Brown. I hope you've declared Sorn or else.....
So as a resident of Spain you've operated a vehicle on UK plates and not imported it and operated on Spanish plates
Presumably you've not a homologation cert as not needed due to import from EU country, but you still need a standardisation cert, again preumably ignored.
Presumably you've not paid Spanish duties and taxes payable on import and registration, nor Spanish road tax from the municipality, and equally I bet you've not been paying anything to that mob in Swansea nor declared SORN.
Looking forward to the ping-pong with a tax disc thread.
There are very large books in UK and Spain that could be thrown at you. One things for sure when the Spanish end find out expect a large over reaction.....
Spain expects that as you are driving around on UK plates its a temporary import because because and that you are paying your dues to Gordon Brown. I hope you've declared Sorn or else.....
V6GTO said:
Yes...SORN declared last July (I'm a good boy me ) And I'm here on a long holiday, I have not applied for residency.
Martin.
How long? Over 12 months is "permanent" in the DVLA's eyes and so you would have had to do the paperwork properly.
Driving it in the UK whilst still registered here as SORN would land you a hefty fine if you pass an ANPR installation.
Plus, as FiF says, the Spaniards will take a dim view of flaunting their import regulations...
Another thought: how is the car insured? Can you insure a car FC in the UK if its declared SORN? Or is that another problem waiting to bite you at renewal?
>> Edited by pdV6 on Thursday 16th March 14:25
Not sure about Spain, but I assume it will be the same as France as it's all part of the EU. If you are still legally resident in the UK, you can use your UK registered car for, I think, up to 6 months in another EU country but only if it is fully legal in it's country of registration. As it is declared SORN here, and therefore not taxed, it cannot legally be used in another country. I'm surprised you've managed to get a Spanish insurance company to insure you as it is UK registered. That will give you another problem. DVLA will only accept an insurance certificate issued by a UK insurance company, so you can't even tax it to get it legal!
To do it properly, you need to insure it with a UK insurance company, make sure it is MoT (if it needs one) and tax it. You can then happily drive back and forth to Spain without offending anyone.
To do it properly, you need to insure it with a UK insurance company, make sure it is MoT (if it needs one) and tax it. You can then happily drive back and forth to Spain without offending anyone.
There are thousands of UK registered car here doing the same as I am...the Policia don't give two hoots.
The car is insured in Gibraltar. It comes with a Green Card that is valid all the time, no poncing about like in the UK where you have to phone your insurance company and then pay extra (rip off Britain again!) just so you can go on holiday
The car is 18 months old so doesn't need an MoT.
I only want to bring the car back for a week FFS, do you really expect me to insure & tax it for a year costing what?...best part of a grand?... just for week in the UK? That's rediculous.
Martin.
The car is insured in Gibraltar. It comes with a Green Card that is valid all the time, no poncing about like in the UK where you have to phone your insurance company and then pay extra (rip off Britain again!) just so you can go on holiday
The car is 18 months old so doesn't need an MoT.
I only want to bring the car back for a week FFS, do you really expect me to insure & tax it for a year costing what?...best part of a grand?... just for week in the UK? That's rediculous.
Martin.
V6GTO said:
Cheaper to rent for a week, surely Shirley?
Will the rental company have a Noble that I can track?
Martin.
www.pistonheads.com/trackdays/carhire.asp
maybe Just because you don't like the answers on the other stuff, sheesh.
You could tax and insure for one month, eg tax 6 months, claim back 5.
The Spanish authorities will do what they will do, or not as it seems.
Remember at one time it was illegal to bring your rhd drive car into Spain and register it, but the capitulated under the weight of protests from UK ex-pats.
Now if you use more than 6 months in any year its a requirement as you then will be considered resident under Spanish law to register your car on local plates and pay the registration tax.
You can rant all you like and say its ridiculous, but it seems that you are operating outside the law and admitting it onforum. Down the steps with you!
Apparently this is a regular and hot topic for discussion in Costa Blanca news or Costa Del Sol Times or whatever the local English rags are.
From the other side of the fence, there you are living in UK, and your neighbour is running a car on, lets say Polish plates, you know he should have it taxed in UK by now, he should have it MOT'd & regularised to C&U regs whatever but he hasn't. Happy to pay Gordon B his wedge when neighbour with no vowels in his name isn't?
[small} This isn't a pop at our Polish friends, just a very bad example.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Thursday 16th March 16:04
Just going off on a tangent here, similar situation I had back in 1990. We bought a motorhome tax free for export, in 1990 to qualify for tax free, all you had to do was export it from the UK. Anyway, the vehicle came with a regular UK registration number, and a six month 'export' tax disc. We went off abroad, we were travelling for four years, not staying or living in any country in particular. When we came back to the UK for the odd week or two, sometimes a customs bod would notice that our tax was out of date, but we couldnt re-tax the vehicle as its registration didnt exist, our registration number had lapsed after export and was just back in the DVLA database, it could even have been re-issued to another vehicle. Nor could we register the vehicle abroad or back in the UK, we tried, and no one was interested because we didnt live anywhere specifically, either in the UK or abroad.
Basically we were driving around in a chassis number not registered anywhere and the plates on the vehicle were meaningless. Insurance was with GA in Paris, and we did used to MOT it in the UK though.
btw, the RFL was abolished in 1961.
>> Edited by Balmoral Green on Thursday 16th March 16:16
Basically we were driving around in a chassis number not registered anywhere and the plates on the vehicle were meaningless. Insurance was with GA in Paris, and we did used to MOT it in the UK though.
btw, the RFL was abolished in 1961.
>> Edited by Balmoral Green on Thursday 16th March 16:16
From my own experience and at least two others that I am personally aquainted with, you WILL get pulled when you bring the car over here. You get off the ferry driving a car on UK plates but with no tax disc displayed. Is it yours or have you nicked it on the continent and stuck a set of false UK plates on it? In a car like that, Customs will almost certainly give you a pull. They'll ask if is your car and check your documents, they'll then phone DVLA to check that the docs are legit. DVLA will see that it is SORN and, unless Customs want you for anything else, they'll let you go. You'll only get as far as the second roundabout up the hill if you come over via Dover because that's when you get pulled by the police motorcyclist who seems to spend his days doing nothing but.
If you come over via the tunnel, you'll be spotted and checked on the French side and they'll be waiting for you to get off the train.
The other thought that comes to my mind is if you can afford to buy a Noble, what's the problem with the odd bit of loose change needed to get it legal throughout Europe?
If you come over via the tunnel, you'll be spotted and checked on the French side and they'll be waiting for you to get off the train.
The other thought that comes to my mind is if you can afford to buy a Noble, what's the problem with the odd bit of loose change needed to get it legal throughout Europe?
gilbertd said:
The other thought that comes to my mind is if you can afford to buy a Noble, what's the problem with the odd bit of loose change needed to get it legal throughout Europe?
It is legal throughout Europe, just not in the UK because they see fit to have extra and swinging taxes on car owners. I'm not trying to "get away" with anything...I'm asking how to pay for the time I'll be using the roads. Does anyone here think it's right that I should pay tax for a year when I only want to use the roads for a week?
Martin.
>> Edited by V6GTO on Thursday 16th March 21:16
[quote=V6GTOIt is legal throughout Europe, just not in the UK because they see fit to have extra and swinging taxes on car owners. I'm not trying to "get away" with anything...I'm asking how to pay for the time I'll be using the roads. Does anyone here think it's right that I should pay tax for a year when I only want to use the roads for a week?
[/quote]
I'm sorry but it isn't legal anywhere, and you don't only want to use it for a week, you want to, and have admitted that you are, using it all the time! It is registered in the UK but currently not in a state that it may be legally used on the roads within the UK. Therefore it may not legally be used anywhere else either.
I know a lot of ex-pats in France that run UK registered cars with no MoT or road tax and insurance of dubious legality (and cover). But none of them (well, not all of them) are stupid enough to think they could get away with bringing them back to the UK without getting pulled. Equally, I know one person who lives in France but has his cars registered to his UK based company. These cars are all driven back to the UK at least once a year for MoT test and are kept taxed. Driving a Bentley Azure from the South of France to the UK costs more in fuel than the road tax. The same could probably be said for your Noble so how the hell can you complain that the tax is excessive?
Stop being such an arse and do the decent thing. You never know, if you get involved in an accident, your insurance may still pay out.....
[/quote]
I'm sorry but it isn't legal anywhere, and you don't only want to use it for a week, you want to, and have admitted that you are, using it all the time! It is registered in the UK but currently not in a state that it may be legally used on the roads within the UK. Therefore it may not legally be used anywhere else either.
I know a lot of ex-pats in France that run UK registered cars with no MoT or road tax and insurance of dubious legality (and cover). But none of them (well, not all of them) are stupid enough to think they could get away with bringing them back to the UK without getting pulled. Equally, I know one person who lives in France but has his cars registered to his UK based company. These cars are all driven back to the UK at least once a year for MoT test and are kept taxed. Driving a Bentley Azure from the South of France to the UK costs more in fuel than the road tax. The same could probably be said for your Noble so how the hell can you complain that the tax is excessive?
Stop being such an arse and do the decent thing. You never know, if you get involved in an accident, your insurance may still pay out.....
gilbertd said:
I'm sorry but it isn't legal anywhere, and you don't only want to use it for a week, you want to, and have admitted that you are, using it all the time! It is registered in the UK but currently not in a state that it may be legally used on the roads within the UK. Therefore it may not legally be used anywhere else either.
I know a lot of ex-pats in France that run UK registered cars with no MoT or road tax and insurance of dubious legality (and cover). But none of them (well, not all of them) are stupid enough to think they could get away with bringing them back to the UK without getting pulled. Equally, I know one person who lives in France but has his cars registered to his UK based company. These cars are all driven back to the UK at least once a year for MoT test and are kept taxed. Driving a Bentley Azure from the South of France to the UK costs more in fuel than the road tax. The same could probably be said for your Noble so how the hell can you complain that the tax is excessive?
Stop being such an arse and do the decent thing. You never know, if you get involved in an accident, your insurance may still pay out.....
After just coming off the telephone to my insurance company it would appear that the only person being an arse here is you, by talking out of it. I asked for advice and all I got was a load of claptrap from someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.
>> Edited by V6GTO on Friday 17th March 09:22
gilbertd said:
Stop being such an arse
My thoughts exactly, sorry V6GTO.
Spanish circulation tax is what, 90 euros at the top end? down to <10 if you're really lucky.
No homologation tax as vehicle is coming from EU
No VAT ditto
OK the registration tax at 12% of the value if vehicle had been bought new in Spain is a consideration and not insignificant, that is accepted.
Then there is the Spanish indolence, bureaucracy, mountains of conflicting paperwork, lethargy.
If the price of avoiding that is getting a UK MOT somehow, 6 months tax (1 month actually with rebate) some UK cover for a period inderterminate depending upon what you can negotiate, then so be it, suck it up and get on with it.
>> Edited by Flat in Fifth on Friday 17th March 09:28
V6GTO said:
After just coming off the telephone to my insurance company it would appear that the only person being an arse here is you, by talking out of it. I asked for advice and all I got was a load of claptrap from someone who doesn't know what he's talking about.
I'd be careful, though - I understood the same as gilbertd, i.e. if the car isn't registered and taxed in the UK (or anywhere else) its not legal to use it elsewhere in the EU.
Your insurers may well take the view now that they're happy to insure (and take your money), but what's the betting they'll wriggle when it comes to claim time?
My good friends who live permanently in Spain have a Renault on a UK plate which is kept permanently in Spain. It is insured in Spain and has a Spanish MoT (equivalent). The Spanish Dep't of Transport even have an 'MoT' form for foreign registered cars. There are, literally, thousands of UK ex-pats living there with UK registered cars which have no UK tax. Spanish insurers advertise insurance for UK registered cars.
In the local English-language papers there are loads of cars for sale with the ads saying 'on Enlish Plates' and the Spanish police are not interested. My friends were stopped for having an almost unreadable front plate as it had deteriorated over time )it's 'P' reg) and got a new set by ost from 'Fancy Plates' for £15 plus postage. The DVLA have the vehicle listed as Exported so if it returns it's just necessary to get a new MoT, re-tax and continue on the Spanish insurance which is required to be valid anywhere in the EU. One might say that it's just the vehicle regulation obsessed British authorities who cause concern, not the Spanish.
Incidentally, in respect of driving foreign registered cars in the UK, if a car is registered to any company in any EU country, so long as it is legal in the country of registration it may be driven anywhere in the EU for as long as the owner likes. The EU regulations require that there are 'no barriers to trade within the EU, so a company owned car must be able to be used anywhere. I phoned the DVLA about this and they confirmed it, although they did say that the vehicle should go out of the UK at least once every 6 months. Of course, they don't check this nor are they ever likely to.
In the local English-language papers there are loads of cars for sale with the ads saying 'on Enlish Plates' and the Spanish police are not interested. My friends were stopped for having an almost unreadable front plate as it had deteriorated over time )it's 'P' reg) and got a new set by ost from 'Fancy Plates' for £15 plus postage. The DVLA have the vehicle listed as Exported so if it returns it's just necessary to get a new MoT, re-tax and continue on the Spanish insurance which is required to be valid anywhere in the EU. One might say that it's just the vehicle regulation obsessed British authorities who cause concern, not the Spanish.
Incidentally, in respect of driving foreign registered cars in the UK, if a car is registered to any company in any EU country, so long as it is legal in the country of registration it may be driven anywhere in the EU for as long as the owner likes. The EU regulations require that there are 'no barriers to trade within the EU, so a company owned car must be able to be used anywhere. I phoned the DVLA about this and they confirmed it, although they did say that the vehicle should go out of the UK at least once every 6 months. Of course, they don't check this nor are they ever likely to.
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