Pulled over for speeding - accept points or appeal?

[liah]

Hi

I use my car for work. I have 6 points on my license, 3 will come off in Decemeber, 3 in March next year.

I got pulled over for going at 42 in a 30 zone in Glasglow (I live in Cornwall) by 2 police in their police car. I was in a hire car and did not see the signs, as I was concentrating on driving. The police said if I did not pay the fine/accept points in 28 days I could be prosecuted for dangerous driving.

Do I have any chance of them not taking it further if I write asking them to produce evidence of -

follow APCOing or manufacturers rules on calibration/re-calibration at the start of the shift

eye tests of officers

anything else?

dispute dangerous driving - how do I do this? what evidence do they need?

Also that fining me without going through due process (court) is illegal under common law (the magna carta) which predates statute.

Does anyone have a standard letter for this please?

I need to return the pink slip or reply in the next couple of days.

Thank you

[CombeMarshal]

To be honest you were way over!!

tell them that it had taken you since Cornwall to reach that speed in the hire car and you couldn't risk not getting up to 70 in time for the Motorway if you slowed down!

How did they know it was you, were you pulled over?

[CombeMarshal]

Oh, you were!

[liah]

I know I was way over but it as a dual carriageway with street lights - yes.

They said it was "built up area" and got a bit stroppy when I said that a similar road where I live is national speed limit. They got into the English person coming to Scotland and breaking our laws thing. I did genuinely think it was a 40 or 50 zone, not that it makes any difference legally.

People do ask for all the evidence when they are way over the limit and the case is dropped.

[Parrot of Doom]

liah said:

I was in a hire car and did not see the signs, as I was concentrating on driving.

<devils advocate>Then you weren't concentrating enough</devils advocate>

[liah]

Any helpful replies here please??

[Fat Audi 80]

In all honesty I think you need to roll over and take it. You have very little option apart from pleading not guilty and going to court. There, it will be your word against 2x BiB and you know what the outcome of that will be.

I mean this in the nicest possible way, but I guess its an unfortunate incident for you and a lesson learnt the hard way.

Hope it works out for you.

Cheers,

steve

[trax]

Looks like you havnt got a chance. They seem to have thrown in lie or bluster that if you deem to challenge them, tyhen you could be up for dangerous driving though, just the usuall crap to bluster you into rolling over.

[SS2.]

liah said:

I use my car for work. I have 6 points on my license, 3 will come off in Decemeber, 3 in March next year. I got pulled over for going at 42 in a 30 zone in Glasglow (I live in Cornwall) by 2 police in their police car. I was in a hire car and did not see the signs, as I was concentrating on driving. The police said if I did not pay the fine/accept points in 28 days I could be prosecuted for dangerous driving. Do I have any chance of them not taking it further if I write asking them to produce evidence of - follow APCOing or manufacturers rules on calibration/re-calibration at the start of the shift eye tests of officers anything else? dispute dangerous driving - how do I do this? what evidence do they need? Also that fining me without going through due process (court) is illegal under common law (the magna carta) which predates statute. Does anyone have a standard letter for this please? I need to return the pink slip or reply in the next couple of days. Thank you

Sorry, but I think there is very little you are going to be able to do about this.

A successful defence would be difficult with just one officer, a calibrated device, a roadside stop and a verbal NIP

To successfully defend when two BiB have witnessed the offence and you have been pulled over would be extremely unlikely, some would say impossible.

With regard to your points:

IIRC, 2 BiB don't need calibrated equipment.

For 42 on its own, its doubtful that DD would stick but in court it would be your word against two BiB. Who are the court most likely to believe ? If they so wished, they could corroborate whatever story they liked..

Magna Carta, due process etc.. You don't have to accept the FPN - you can elect to have the matter heard in court. See above for the risks, though.

[liah]

thanks everyone

how come some people appeal everything (and sometimes win)?

[SS2.]

liah said:

how come some people appeal everything (and sometimes win)?

IMO, not likely when they have been a participant in a roadside pull by two police officers, unfortunately.


>> Edited by SS2. on Wednesday 22 March 20:21

[vonhosen]

SS2. said:

IIRC, 2 BiB don't need calibrated equipment.

2 BiB need no measurement device, the opinion of each independently formed at the same time is sufficient evidence.

1 BiB with an uncalibrated speedo is sufficient also, where the margin over the limit is not small.

Scotland may be a little different though in relation to my statements above. Their corroboration rules are different to England & Wales. There are two officers in liah's case though, so corroboration shouldn't be a problem for the prosecution.



>> Edited by vonhosen on Wednesday 22 March 20:53

[deva link]

liah said:

They got into the English person coming to Scotland and breaking our laws thing.

You could play the race card? (This is tonque in cheek)

Suggesting Dangerous Driving seems a bit OTT, though.

[dcb]

liah said:

Do I have any chance of them not taking it further if I write asking them to produce evidence of -

If you have the slightest doubt, plead not guilty.
It's up to them to prove it.

DD is very difficult in practice to prove.

[Observer2]

liah said:

I got pulled over for going at 42 in a 30 zone in Glasglow (I live in Cornwall) by 2 police in their police car. I was in a hire car and did not see the signs, as I was concentrating on driving. The police said if I did not pay the fine/accept points in 28 days I could be prosecuted for dangerous driving.

The threat of DD charge is a nasty piece of intimidation and disgraceful behaviour by the BiB concerned. There is no way CPS would pursue a DD charge (and no way a court would convict) simply on the facts of 42 in a 30. However, you have little realistic prospect of avoiding the speeding ticket so probably best to swallow it and move on.

>> Edited by Observer2 on Wednesday 22 March 22:11

[liah]

They told me the possible DD charge was standard practice!

Wasn't it then?

I will accept the points it will just be difficult as I will then have 9 points and I drive for about 2-4 hours a day for work. Very slowly now, not that I have ever driven that fast but that's life!

[justinp1]

liah said:

thanks everyone how come some people appeal everything (and sometimes win)?

Really only two ways:

The case is lost on an administraative fault, like the officers dont turn up for some reason, and thus the CPS has no evidence and thus the case is dismissed.

You have a highly paid specialist lawyer who finds any loophole possible in the case. One which I know of has even won seemingly no-hope cases on the most randon failures of the CPS made on the day.

This way forward is expensive at £4000 per case, but the guy had a very good success rate. If you win, you will get no points and the majority of your costs. If you lose, then as well as the same punishment you will be £4000 down as well.

The DD charge is BS, and if you pleaded not guilty to it, I fail to see how this could be 'added' later on, and is clearly bullying. The bottom line is though, you were pulled for doing 42, which you have not disputed, and to be honest, unfortunate as it is, taking the rap is the easier option than risking a lot more IMHO.

[Flat in Fifth]

justinp1 said:

The DD charge is BS, : 8< snip 8< : and is clearly bullying.

Agreed albeit depending upon the actual circumstances at the time.

eg To use the classic "past a school at kicking out time" example, even though a lit dual carriageway at such times, i.e. sprogs swarming all over, then 42 could be considered DD imho.

Now to go off at a tangent, I do know of at least one English person who sticks the Saltire on his car when travelling north of the border on the basis that this hopefully eliminates them from the machinations of any bitter plod who would take any chance to stick one up the Sassenachs.

I have absolutely NO IDEA if this is worthwhile or not, simply repeated as reported to me when I asked why an Englishman with no Scottish connections displayed the flag.

[justinp1]

Flat in Fifth said:

justinp1 said: The DD charge is BS, : 8< snip 8< : and is clearly bullying. Agreed albeit depending upon the actual circumstances at the time. eg To use the classic "past a school at kicking out time" example, even though a lit dual carriageway at such times, i.e. sprogs swarming all over, then 42 could be considered DD imho. Now to go off at a tangent, I do know of at least one English person who sticks the Saltire on his car when travelling north of the border on the basis that this hopefully eliminates them from the machinations of any bitter plod who would take any chance to stick one up the Sassenachs. I have absolutely NO IDEA if this is worthwhile or not, simply repeated as reported to me when I asked why an Englishman with no Scottish connections displayed the flag.

I agree, whilst there *may* be something additional which makes his driving dangerous, I think it would be a test case to also be convicted of dangerous driving for driving 12mph over the limit. In fact he would have to be doing at least 21mph over the limit to even be considered for 6 points according to the magistrates guidelines.

The crux of my point is that I am unaware at what stage the CPS could just decide to 'add' the additional charge. He has only been given the NIP for speeding, so I am guessing that would be what it would stay as.

[mcflurry]

Pay 60 squid, and drive slowly for a few months...