My father-in-law and his 9 points
Discussion
The g/fs Dad has just racked up his third lot of camera points in two years. He's now on 9 and if he gets any more could well be banned. He got it when a 40 country road changed to a 30 for about a mile as it went through a hamlet and then back to 40 after and he just didn't notice.
I've talked to him about my view that although speed cameras DO take away your ability to make an informed judgement about what speed is safe for the particular weather conditions, time of day, traffic density etc. they are a fact of life now and you have to look out for them and if you do get zapped there's really noone else to blame but yourself. He refuses to admit that he's in ANY way responsible for getting the points and I reckon he's going to rack up some more soon.
Any thoughts on this?
I've talked to him about my view that although speed cameras DO take away your ability to make an informed judgement about what speed is safe for the particular weather conditions, time of day, traffic density etc. they are a fact of life now and you have to look out for them and if you do get zapped there's really noone else to blame but yourself. He refuses to admit that he's in ANY way responsible for getting the points and I reckon he's going to rack up some more soon.
Any thoughts on this?
Sounds like a fool. Cameras are here for the foresee-able so it's up to us as drivers to avoid being caught by them. This means either never speeding, or just not speeding past cameras (or anywhere inappropriate camera or not).
It does sound like he needs to adjust his driving style and maybe invest in a Road Angel or similar.
It does sound like he needs to adjust his driving style and maybe invest in a Road Angel or similar.
He can moan and blame others as much as he likes, but it's always him behind the wheel. Tell him that when he's standing in the bus queue having got his 12th point he is still more than welcome to blame others if he wishes.
Don't get me wrong - I hate speed cameras as much as everybody else, but just because you hate them does NOT mean they are not there! (though I admit that I probably have been a bit lucky to have never been zapped)
Don't get me wrong - I hate speed cameras as much as everybody else, but just because you hate them does NOT mean they are not there! (though I admit that I probably have been a bit lucky to have never been zapped)
Yugguy said:
What makes me laugh is that he is the archetypal 60 year old careful Volvo driver.
They're the bloody worst. We get them at the IAM. Having an open mind isn't the sole preserve of the young - many elderly drivers get new enjoyment and skills by doing the IAM test - but we get a good few that turn up and "bounce". They just wanted to be told their driving was godlike, they were right and the young hoons sounding their horns as they go up the one way street the wrong way were wrong.
Unless he can accept that failing to see cameras is *his* problem and that he *will* be denied his driving licence if he doesn't buck up his ideas he is about to spent a long time using public transport.
If you and your good lady want to do him a favour you could buy him a Road Angel or, preferably, any form of Sat Nav with easy to use camera detection.
Sadly I expect it will do no good and his driving days are numbered...
Don said:
What makes me laugh is that he is the archetypal 60 year old careful Volvo driver.
They're the bloody worst. Sadly I expect it will do no good and his driving days are numbered...
Seconded, I'm fed up with following old farts round the countryside at 40mph and watching them maintain their speed through the villages. FFS if these peolpe can't spot a bright yellow imovable object (that they will have been given plenty of warning about), then how are they going to deal with unpredictable objects that you might reasonably find in a village.
Don't waste your money on a Road Angel. The sooner he is banned the better.
To be honest Don, I'd disagree. A road angel/camera detection type thing would place even more stress on "it's a problem from others", rather than that which he SHOULD be doing; better observation.
I won't deny for a moment that some cameras are really badly placed BUT having spent a day with a camera organisation and seeing that people drive at 40mph through 30mph bright huge yellow pre-warned cameras in the middle of a town centre, you really do get to realise that there is AWFUL observation.
I of course don't know the specifics of your F-I-L, Yugguy, but like I say Don, I wouldn't want to say 'here's a road angel, it'll stop you getting points', I would want to say "here's an IAM course, learn how to look ahead".
I won't deny for a moment that some cameras are really badly placed BUT having spent a day with a camera organisation and seeing that people drive at 40mph through 30mph bright huge yellow pre-warned cameras in the middle of a town centre, you really do get to realise that there is AWFUL observation.
I of course don't know the specifics of your F-I-L, Yugguy, but like I say Don, I wouldn't want to say 'here's a road angel, it'll stop you getting points', I would want to say "here's an IAM course, learn how to look ahead".
TonyHetherington said:There's never a wrong time to undertake further driver training but I know quite a few IAM and RoSPA people with points. Belts and braces then?
I of course don't know the specifics of your F-I-L, Yugguy, but like I say Don, I wouldn't want to say 'here's a road angel, it'll stop you getting points', I would want to say "here's an IAM course, learn how to look ahead".
Yugguy said:
What makes me laugh is that he is the archetypal 60 year old careful Volvo driver.
Doesn't this kind of person make up the majority of speeding penalty offenders?
Younger drivers (17-25) are smart enough not to get snapped, yet they're the ones killing themselves and others in crashes.
Absurd really.
I know a 85-year-old who has 'gained' 9 points for 3 speeding offences in less than 2 months. Two offences were through the same camera in a 30mph limit on a sea-front with many pedestrains.
He thinks he was hard done by and still complains about other drivers doing 80 on the M27!
Until I told him he didn't know that he would be banned if he collects another 3 points in the next 2½-years.
He thinks he was hard done by and still complains about other drivers doing 80 on the M27!
Until I told him he didn't know that he would be banned if he collects another 3 points in the next 2½-years.
turbobloke said:
There's never a wrong time to undertake further driver training but I know quite a few IAM and RoSPA people with points. Belts and braces then?
Indeed - I don't suggest for one minute it is 'full proof', indeed I (as a member of the IAM) simply consider myself lucky that I've not been zapped; it's not all down to observation. I'd just be worried to suggest "here's a road angel, you'll not get zapped again". It's my thoughts that the problem is far deeper routed.
TonyHetherington said:Totally agree, both training and a legal warning device would seem the ideal solution, the 'belts and braces' as posted.
There's never a wrong time to undertake further driver training but I know quite a few IAM and RoSPA people with points. Belts and braces then?
Indeed - I don't suggest for one minute it is 'full proof', indeed I (as a member of the IAM) simply consider myself lucky that I've not been zapped; it's not all down to observation. I'd just be worried to suggest "here's a road angel, you'll not get zapped again". It's my thoughts that the problem is far deeper routed.
turbobloke said:
I of course don't know the specifics of your F-I-L, Yugguy, but like I say Don, I wouldn't want to say 'here's a road angel, it'll stop you getting points', I would want to say "here's an IAM course, learn how to look ahead".
I agree.
Tony: I would absolutely recommend an IAM course - and agree that proper Observation is the issue. My experience of those who come on such courses with the attitudes described by Yugguy is that they do not often benefit. They usually leave, incensed that their driving was critisised.
A Road Angel, however, does not offer either criticism or much assistance. It does, however, provide an inanimate object to blame for getting banned. This is loads better than needing to blame himself.
>> Edited by Don on Monday 24th April 17:26
7db said:
Totally agree, both training and a legal warning device would seem the ideal solution, the 'belts and braces' as posted.
The cameras giveth points, taketh away cash, and causeth vexation.
They giveth not safety improvements, verily so.
Various noble PistonHeaders encourage driver training
TonyHetherington said:
He can moan and blame others as much as he likes, but it's always him behind the wheel. Tell him that when he's standing in the bus queue having got his 12th point he is still more than welcome to blame others if he wishes.
Don't get me wrong - I hate speed cameras as much as everybody else, but just because you hate them does NOT mean they are not there! (though I admit that I probably have been a bit lucky to have never been zapped)
When you've got 9 points you'll feel just like that bloke....trust me
This sort of thing just highlights the differences between many younger drivers like myself, and older ones like your father in law.
I (being younger) have allways looked out for cameras since I passed my test. Also look out for police in vans and look on the internet for there locations every so often.
I think im very unlikely to get caught by a camera unless im not paying attention.
As such I have no points in my 8 years of driving, even though im doing 600 miles+ per week.
I could be driving like a maniac 95% of the time, and just slow down to avoid points.
As for your father in law.
If he isnt going to stick to the limit then a road angel is a first step.
Good luck convincing him to go to IAM or similar, as this will probably be a more constructive solution.
I (being younger) have allways looked out for cameras since I passed my test. Also look out for police in vans and look on the internet for there locations every so often.
I think im very unlikely to get caught by a camera unless im not paying attention.
As such I have no points in my 8 years of driving, even though im doing 600 miles+ per week.
I could be driving like a maniac 95% of the time, and just slow down to avoid points.
As for your father in law.
If he isnt going to stick to the limit then a road angel is a first step.
Good luck convincing him to go to IAM or similar, as this will probably be a more constructive solution.
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