What would you do in a confrontation?
Discussion
Serious question time here for our BIB/advanced drivers.
Yesterday I was driving home, following someone who looked "a bit shakey" on the road. On a major roundabout leading to a motorway, he managed to avoid the 60ft wide piece of tarmac, putting 2 wheels and half the car up onto the grass roundabout (BIG kirb climbed!) before slapping it down the other side to go onto the slip road.
Sensing all is not well, I give him space, lots of it.
Onto the motorway, I continue to leave twice the normal gap to allow for this idiot - after a few hundred yards I'm happy he's staying in lane one, and there is nothing in front of him for some distance, so I proceed into lane 2 and accelerate to pass. I have 3 cars to my right in lane 3 as I draw up to his rear bumper.
Just as my front wheel is level with the back of his car, he swerves wildly into my lane - I had to use the ABS to avoid hitting him or the cars to my right, I sounded the horn as a warning at which point he kindly slammed on his brakes. I had space to my right now so rather than brake hard I moved past. I know it wasn't right to do so but I was livid and gave a hand geasture as I went past.
Queue psycho to start going red screaming at me, right on my bumper, following me lane to lane. If I slowed, he just stayed with me even down to speeds way to slow for a motorway, so I decided to just lose him by using my cars nimbleness and speed to disappear - at considerably above the speed limit.
Obviously that leaves me open to abuse because of the speeding element, but what would you have done if a psycho was going nuts and refusing to disappear?!
Yesterday I was driving home, following someone who looked "a bit shakey" on the road. On a major roundabout leading to a motorway, he managed to avoid the 60ft wide piece of tarmac, putting 2 wheels and half the car up onto the grass roundabout (BIG kirb climbed!) before slapping it down the other side to go onto the slip road.
Sensing all is not well, I give him space, lots of it.
Onto the motorway, I continue to leave twice the normal gap to allow for this idiot - after a few hundred yards I'm happy he's staying in lane one, and there is nothing in front of him for some distance, so I proceed into lane 2 and accelerate to pass. I have 3 cars to my right in lane 3 as I draw up to his rear bumper.
Just as my front wheel is level with the back of his car, he swerves wildly into my lane - I had to use the ABS to avoid hitting him or the cars to my right, I sounded the horn as a warning at which point he kindly slammed on his brakes. I had space to my right now so rather than brake hard I moved past. I know it wasn't right to do so but I was livid and gave a hand geasture as I went past.
Queue psycho to start going red screaming at me, right on my bumper, following me lane to lane. If I slowed, he just stayed with me even down to speeds way to slow for a motorway, so I decided to just lose him by using my cars nimbleness and speed to disappear - at considerably above the speed limit.
Obviously that leaves me open to abuse because of the speeding element, but what would you have done if a psycho was going nuts and refusing to disappear?!
Exactly what you did.
You gave him space to make his own mistakes, and you used the horn on your car for its intended purpose, i.e. to make the other driver aware of your presence.
Once you had seen fit to point out the fact that you were a little displeased with his attempts to kill you, he over reacted.
Your multiple attempts to allow him to proceed having failed, you presumably thought yourself "in fear of your life" and made adequate progress for a sufficient distance to ensure that you felt safe.
While I agree that VH and the Speed Kills posse will want to lynch you for endangering the planet by doing 71mph, I'd do the same, every single time.
You gave him space to make his own mistakes, and you used the horn on your car for its intended purpose, i.e. to make the other driver aware of your presence.
Once you had seen fit to point out the fact that you were a little displeased with his attempts to kill you, he over reacted.
Your multiple attempts to allow him to proceed having failed, you presumably thought yourself "in fear of your life" and made adequate progress for a sufficient distance to ensure that you felt safe.
While I agree that VH and the Speed Kills posse will want to lynch you for endangering the planet by doing 71mph, I'd do the same, every single time.
Avoid the confrontation at all costs.
On Friday, on the way home from work, I was following a small modern hatchback, in my fiasco, along a section of dual carriageway. The limit was fourty, but I was in the outside lane doing sixty. Myself and the vehicle in front were both in the outside lane, having just passed other cars.
The traffic lights at the junction changed to orange, and looking at them I assesed that I'd make it across the junction before they went red. The vehicle in front decided that it was going to stop. I assume that it had ABS, because there was no way that I'd have stopped in that distance. As it was the other vehicle overshot the white line by a car length.
Fortunately the inside lane was empty, and I was able to swerve into the inside lane, in time to realise that the vehicle in front had had no brakelights visible.
Close shave.
Same journey home.
Following another small fiesta. Large sign in the rear window suggesting that I should leave plenty of room, because the driver of the vehicle always observes the speed limit. Needless to say the vehicle had one brakelight not working.
We got stuck in a traffic queue, and there would have been plenty of time to nip out and let her know that her brakelight was malfunctioning. Did I? Nope, I don't need the confrontation.
These anti speed freaks have lost the plot. Why? Because the basic, dynamic, roadcraft behaviors which are stipulated under law irrespective of one's speed are being ignored in favour of an all encompassing saftey rule which is difficult to forget. That's the speed kills mantra.
What I believe the speed kills people forget, is that there are still plenty of places in the UK where one can legally travel at 70 miles per hour. With this in mind, they might like to consider the probability that they are going to kill themselves and probably others because they are only capable of remembering to observe one rule.
Is the UK dumbing down? You bet.
Edited to add;
And yes, I only saw an orange light.
>> Edited by dilbert on Sunday 14th May 14:44
On Friday, on the way home from work, I was following a small modern hatchback, in my fiasco, along a section of dual carriageway. The limit was fourty, but I was in the outside lane doing sixty. Myself and the vehicle in front were both in the outside lane, having just passed other cars.
The traffic lights at the junction changed to orange, and looking at them I assesed that I'd make it across the junction before they went red. The vehicle in front decided that it was going to stop. I assume that it had ABS, because there was no way that I'd have stopped in that distance. As it was the other vehicle overshot the white line by a car length.
Fortunately the inside lane was empty, and I was able to swerve into the inside lane, in time to realise that the vehicle in front had had no brakelights visible.
Close shave.
Same journey home.
Following another small fiesta. Large sign in the rear window suggesting that I should leave plenty of room, because the driver of the vehicle always observes the speed limit. Needless to say the vehicle had one brakelight not working.
We got stuck in a traffic queue, and there would have been plenty of time to nip out and let her know that her brakelight was malfunctioning. Did I? Nope, I don't need the confrontation.
These anti speed freaks have lost the plot. Why? Because the basic, dynamic, roadcraft behaviors which are stipulated under law irrespective of one's speed are being ignored in favour of an all encompassing saftey rule which is difficult to forget. That's the speed kills mantra.
What I believe the speed kills people forget, is that there are still plenty of places in the UK where one can legally travel at 70 miles per hour. With this in mind, they might like to consider the probability that they are going to kill themselves and probably others because they are only capable of remembering to observe one rule.
Is the UK dumbing down? You bet.
Edited to add;
And yes, I only saw an orange light.
>> Edited by dilbert on Sunday 14th May 14:44
GreenV8S said:
Not directly relevent to the confrontation, but I'm strongly averse to having cars on both sides. If I'm passing somebody on the left I want an escape route open to my right and vice versa.
That's one thing I certainly put down to an error on my part - I kicked myself for not accurately assessing the speed of the cars in lane 3 - I believed I'd be past him before they were anywhere near me. Obviously I should also not have given a hand guesture!
Plod's advice to me after a similar incident some years ago was near enough what you did, i.e. as soon as safe to do so put plenty of space between you and the prat. They weren't the slightest bit interested in the speed I reached during the incident I described, or in telling me to stick to the speed limit next time. Reassuring.
Had one guy cut me up badly several years ago, was driving a fiesta and he was in a mini, he gave me the hand guesture out of the window and made some comment me having sex with someone in my family 
My car was faster than his, so overtook and slowed down, he then tried to overtake at which point I sped up, so he went back to lane 1. This repeated 20-30 times before I got bored of it and looking back at him, he was almost purple and yelling like a demented evanglist 
What I do find annoying is the prats who find themselves in the turn right lane, when they want to be in the straight on lane, guy indicates and then swerves into my lane and assumes that as he has indicated, then he must be allowed to take priority, gave him a slow wave with a fist clenched around an imaginary pole, he got the message...
People who drive very close to me i just slow right down and sometimes if not in a rush take them on a tour of the local town...
My car was faster than his, so overtook and slowed down, he then tried to overtake at which point I sped up, so he went back to lane 1. This repeated 20-30 times before I got bored of it and looking back at him, he was almost purple and yelling like a demented evanglist What I do find annoying is the prats who find themselves in the turn right lane, when they want to be in the straight on lane, guy indicates and then swerves into my lane and assumes that as he has indicated, then he must be allowed to take priority, gave him a slow wave with a fist clenched around an imaginary pole, he got the message...
People who drive very close to me i just slow right down and sometimes if not in a rush take them on a tour of the local town...
Scraggles said:
Had one guy cut me up badly several years ago, was driving a fiesta and he was in a mini, he gave me the hand guesture out of the window and made some comment me having sex with someone in my family
C
t, in the fiesta. Hope I never have to drive anywhere near you! >> Edited by timsta on Sunday 14th May 15:36
Scraggles said:
Had one guy cut me up badly several years ago, was driving a fiesta and he was in a mini, he gave me the hand guesture out of the window and made some comment me having sex with someone in my family
From the smiley I guess you *still* think you acted reasonably? Amazing!
dilbert said:
The limit was fourty, but I was in the outside lane doing sixty. Myself and the vehicle in front were both in the outside lane, having just passed other cars.
The traffic lights at the junction changed to orange, and looking at them I assesed that I'd make it across the junction before they went red. The vehicle in front decided that it was going to stop.
Dilbert, apologies if I've misunderstood here, but surely what you describe is an error of judgement, both on the part of you and the other driver?
If you're approaching a set of traffic lights on a junction at 20mph over the speed limit, then I would have thought it would be more sensible to assume that they might change before you get to them.
From reading what you wrote, it doesn't seem to me that the other driver was at fault. Were you criticising the other driver for not taking a chance on the amber?
Very tough call. Sounds like he was doing some sort of revenge attack for a perceived earlier incident ? Either way, crazy driving. I know you did the right thing, but I can't honestly say I wouldn't have stopped for a word with him. I know it's not advisable, but sometimes 
, but you definately did the right thing in truth.
What I would not do is enter in to any sort of on road joust - braking then accelerating then swapping lanes etc. - you know the sort of thing. That just puts other people in danger
, but you definately did the right thing in truth. What I would not do is enter in to any sort of on road joust - braking then accelerating then swapping lanes etc. - you know the sort of thing. That just puts other people in danger
silversun said:
The limit was fourty, but I was in the outside lane doing sixty. Myself and the vehicle in front were both in the outside lane, having just passed other cars.
The traffic lights at the junction changed to orange, and looking at them I assesed that I'd make it across the junction before they went red. The vehicle in front decided that it was going to stop.
Dilbert, apologies if I've misunderstood here, but surely what you describe is an error of judgement, both on the part of you and the other driver?
If you're approaching a set of traffic lights on a junction at 20mph over the speed limit, then I would have thought it would be more sensible to assume that they might change before you get to them.
From reading what you wrote, it doesn't seem to me that the other driver was at fault. Were you criticising the other driver for not taking a chance on the amber?
Well yes and no.
I mean, yes I was breaking the law in respect of the speed. Hands up. On the other, hand the highway code IIRC suggests that if you are presented with an orange light, that you should proceed with caution, and stop if it is safe to do so. Jamming on the brakes as hard as possible and stopping after the line, isn't best practice IMO, especially if your brakelights arent working.
Did I exhibit an error of judgement? Clearly, but not in respect of the traffic signals. More that it is my responsibility to leave a gap appropriate to the distance in which I can stop.
The thing is though, that you only have to travel once in your life on the M25, to find yourself compromised over stopping distances. I'd wager that the majority leave less than they need to stop assuming that the vehicle in front stops dead.
Equally I must assume that other people will not necassarily exhibit good judgement. Not least because my safety depends on it, but also the safety of others.
Whilst all of this is off topic, I just think it a pretty good indiactor when driving behaviour decends to this level. No brakelights, sudden irrational behaviour, poor judgement of distance, but yes I was at fault also.
The thing about it is the confrontation. Clearly, I'd escaped injury or being the cause of injury because of someone else's failed brakelights. But if you asked me to confront a self confessed anti speed freak because of their failed brakelights, no way.
The sad part is that when the antispeedfreak kills someone, due to failed brakelights, the antispeedfreak thinks it's the other persons fault. This is especially gaulling when the political message from the back window is communicated with greater accuity, than the safety message from the driver.
>> Edited by dilbert on Sunday 14th May 18:15
dilbert said:
On the other, hand the highway code IIRC suggests that if you are presented with an orange light, that you should proceed with caution, and stop if it is safe to do so.
Methinks you should take a look at the Highway Code.
Driving towards a green traffic light at 60 in 40 limit is asking for trouble. What's the next thing that happens after a traffic has been on green? It really shouldn't take anyone by surprise.
deva link said:
On the other, hand the highway code IIRC suggests that if you are presented with an orange light, that you should proceed with caution, and stop if it is safe to do so.
Methinks you should take a look at the Highway Code.
Driving towards a green traffic light at 60 in 40 limit is asking for trouble. What's the next thing that happens after a traffic has been on green? It really shouldn't take anyone by surprise.
I'd not dispute that. I never saw red, anywhere.
See......
www.highwaycode.gov.uk/signs01.htm
Edited to add;
Whatever the timings of the traffic light are, and that's an unknown (at least it was for me), the faster you're going the more distance you're going to cover in that unknown time, that makes the margin wider with greater speed. This is why the system works well.
If you see the orange light and you know you're going to be able to stop, you slow down and the distance for which you see the orange light is much smaller. In all probability you will see a red light. If you see an orange light and you don't think you're going to be able to stop, then you speed up, and cover the distance to the line in a shorter period of time such that you clear the junction before the light goes red (and the opposing traffic sees green).
That's why we have an orange light. If you think of traffic as a continuous regular stream, when a signal is in the process of turning to danger, both the tail of the stream that passes and the head of the stream that stops are gently compressed. This is necassary to allow for the gap that is forced as a result of the junction and the space that it occupies when inserted into the regular stream.
What I did know, is that at the point the light went orange, I'd not be able to stop before the line. Speeding is not right, but the person in front was travelling as fast as I. From their perspective, the whole thing must have been very marginal indeed, because they weren't actually able to stop in time for the position of the line and signal.
If you become stationary, and you are unable to see the signal, you've made a bad decision. If you decide to go, and you see red, you've also got it wrong.
>> Edited by dilbert on Sunday 14th May 19:47
>> Edited by dilbert on Sunday 14th May 19:52
irrespective of who did what, I would have stayed in the most defensive position..ie behind the perp. This means you can react to anything and not have him follow you around leaving you vunrable. Just drop back and if they drop back also, check mirrors and at the last minute indicate and turn off making sure the perp has no chance of turning.
Having been followed by some nutcase in Texas(where they carry guns btw..) I adopted this defensive mentality irrespective of whos fault it was.
.
Having been followed by some nutcase in Texas(where they carry guns btw..) I adopted this defensive mentality irrespective of whos fault it was.
.
I would have done the same.
Travelling down the M1 about midnight a year or so ago in the M3, empty motorway so in the left lane doing circa 90 mph. Caught up with a 4*4 doing circa 70 mph in the middle lane. Moved to lane 3, passed him and moved back to lane 1 at which point the 4*4 driver speeds up and starts driving right on my rear bumper. After a mile or so of this I get fed up and slowed down so that he would go past. He drove along side and stayed level staring at me (middle aged Asian guy). I liked this even less and accelerated hard to 90mph leaving him behind and continued to cruise. He then caught me up and continued to sit on the rear bumper. Got to some road works down to one lane, 50 mph speed limit and I thought there were cameras so slowed to 50mph with this guy still inches from the rear bumper. After the road works I stayed at 50mph in the hope he would pass and go away but no drove along side and stared at me. I was now a few miles from my exit and knew that I was going off onto country lanes which I didn't know very well and was getting worried that he might follow and if he happened to be a local who knew the road may very well prove hard to lose. Consequntly decided to go for a speed I knew his 4*4 would never reach and lose him before I turned off. So reach an indicated 140mph held it for a couple of miles and never saw him again.
I have no idea what his problem was. Perhaps it was a young bloke in a M3 which upset him. Perhaps he didn't like been overtaken. Perhaps he thought the xenons were full beam. I don't know but was dam glad to be rid of him.
Travelling down the M1 about midnight a year or so ago in the M3, empty motorway so in the left lane doing circa 90 mph. Caught up with a 4*4 doing circa 70 mph in the middle lane. Moved to lane 3, passed him and moved back to lane 1 at which point the 4*4 driver speeds up and starts driving right on my rear bumper. After a mile or so of this I get fed up and slowed down so that he would go past. He drove along side and stayed level staring at me (middle aged Asian guy). I liked this even less and accelerated hard to 90mph leaving him behind and continued to cruise. He then caught me up and continued to sit on the rear bumper. Got to some road works down to one lane, 50 mph speed limit and I thought there were cameras so slowed to 50mph with this guy still inches from the rear bumper. After the road works I stayed at 50mph in the hope he would pass and go away but no drove along side and stared at me. I was now a few miles from my exit and knew that I was going off onto country lanes which I didn't know very well and was getting worried that he might follow and if he happened to be a local who knew the road may very well prove hard to lose. Consequntly decided to go for a speed I knew his 4*4 would never reach and lose him before I turned off. So reach an indicated 140mph held it for a couple of miles and never saw him again.
I have no idea what his problem was. Perhaps it was a young bloke in a M3 which upset him. Perhaps he didn't like been overtaken. Perhaps he thought the xenons were full beam. I don't know but was dam glad to be rid of him.
LRdriver II said:
irrespective of who did what, I would have stayed in the most defensive position..ie behind the perp. This means you can react to anything and not have him follow you around leaving you vunrable. Just drop back and if they drop back also, check mirrors and at the last minute indicate and turn off making sure the perp has no chance of turning.
Having been followed by some nutcase in Texas(where they carry guns btw..) I adopted this defensive mentality irrespective of whos fault it was.
.
what about the fact they are then in a position to try to force you to stop, should that be their intention? I understand what you mean, but that was my first concern. Obviously one would hope you'd be able to get past should they decide that but say you come up on some traffic, they are then in a prime position to pretty much stop you in your tracks?
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