Police now using quiet sirens ?
Discussion
An observation - travelling down an A road round a long left hand bend at about 50 in the chim with the roof off. So not too much wind noise and usually I can hear sirens at a great distance. Half way round the bend come across BiB in a mondeo, blues on coming straight at me. He's having to overtake a numpty who, on seeing a flashing blue light has decided the middle of the road is the correct place to sit (this is a very wide A road easily room for 3 cars across). I dive over to the side and hit the anchors but theres a huge kerb and its clear he's not going to make it. Great driving by BiB , in a split second analyses situation, backs off dives in and we are all happy, no hassle.
My point here is that he had his siren on but I couldnt hear it until he was actually level with me...then I could hear it fine as he pulled away. In chatting with another Bib about this later (yes I have a friend who used to be a trafpol) Im told that there have been some BiB complaining that the newer cars have the siren mounted behind the bumper and it doesnt project the sound forward. I can 100% agree this is the case ! Now if I had heard the siren I would likely have slowed way down and already been moving over before arriving into the corner and avoided some hasty manoeuvers on both our parts ! No harm done but having a car come at you at high speed head on is one heck of an adrenaline rush
Now I know its only BiB that have this problem as I can hear ambulances a fair way off and the sirens do what they are supposed to. Warn me theres someone about likley to be moving at speed outside the usual rules, to slow down be aware and keep the eyes peeled
Since this I have been looking out for BiB and spotted one today going the other way lights and sirens on and I didnt hear the siren until he was about 2 car lengths away. Useless ! This time I was in the omega, crusing at 60 with the radio off so should have had no trouble hearing it.
Sorry for the long post, the question is, anyone else noticed this or am I just going deaf ?
>> Edited by bigdods on Saturday 20th May 21:28
My point here is that he had his siren on but I couldnt hear it until he was actually level with me...then I could hear it fine as he pulled away. In chatting with another Bib about this later (yes I have a friend who used to be a trafpol) Im told that there have been some BiB complaining that the newer cars have the siren mounted behind the bumper and it doesnt project the sound forward. I can 100% agree this is the case ! Now if I had heard the siren I would likely have slowed way down and already been moving over before arriving into the corner and avoided some hasty manoeuvers on both our parts ! No harm done but having a car come at you at high speed head on is one heck of an adrenaline rush
Now I know its only BiB that have this problem as I can hear ambulances a fair way off and the sirens do what they are supposed to. Warn me theres someone about likley to be moving at speed outside the usual rules, to slow down be aware and keep the eyes peeled
Since this I have been looking out for BiB and spotted one today going the other way lights and sirens on and I didnt hear the siren until he was about 2 car lengths away. Useless ! This time I was in the omega, crusing at 60 with the radio off so should have had no trouble hearing it.
Sorry for the long post, the question is, anyone else noticed this or am I just going deaf ?
>> Edited by bigdods on Saturday 20th May 21:28
bigdods said:Coincidence you should post about this, same thing happened to me last week - doing all the observation things as usual - and while there was a clear way past through the traffic and nothing untoward heppened it just left that wtf feeling. New policy?
My point here is that he had his siren on but I couldnt hear it until he was actually level with me...
Now that ist daft .. they already have problems with people stepping out in front of them at high volume.. so at a lower pitch?
Ist not a good idea ...those sirens warn all road users und not just drivers und if some pedestrian has sight problem - they rely on sound {ist why we criticise -
( constructively but they are a bit "over sensitive as they are all so "more vulnerable" -)
cyclists who moan about pedestrians when all they need to do ist ping the bell und shout a polite "excuse me" on shared paths if they use them.)
The lights warn those hard of hearing too. Not sure what advice to give to cyclists who meet the deaf person on the shared paths though...
Shout more loudly???? Or just COAST down to deal with a "tricksy hazard"
But not a good idea to muffle the sirens...
Ist not a good idea ...those sirens warn all road users und not just drivers und if some pedestrian has sight problem - they rely on sound {ist why we criticise -
( constructively but they are a bit "over sensitive as they are all so "more vulnerable" -)
cyclists who moan about pedestrians when all they need to do ist ping the bell und shout a polite "excuse me" on shared paths if they use them.)
The lights warn those hard of hearing too. Not sure what advice to give to cyclists who meet the deaf person on the shared paths though...
Shout more loudly???? Or just COAST down to deal with a "tricksy hazard"
But not a good idea to muffle the sirens...
vonhosen said:
I have noticed that sirens are much quieter recently.
Maybe this is due to health and safety, and people claiming damages for loss of hearing ?
Emeregncy services get lots of complaints from the good old British public about their use of sirens.
They also get lots of complaints about speed cameras , speed humps, speed limit reduction.... since when does the opinion of the public have any weight ?
Perhaps we should put a man with a red flag out front of the trafpol just to be sure that no H&S regs are being broken.
Madness.
And if this IS the case why is it only the BiB that are taking action. I notice that fire engines and ambulances are still nice and loud.....
>> Edited by bigdods on Sunday 21st May 15:28
bigdods said:
I have noticed that sirens are much quieter recently.
Maybe this is due to health and safety, and people claiming damages for loss of hearing ?
Emeregncy services get lots of complaints from the good old British public about their use of sirens.
They also get lots of complaints about speed cameras , speed humps, speed limit reduction.... since when does the opinion of the public have any weight ?
Perhaps we should put a man with a red flag out front of the trafpol just to be sure that no H&S regs are being broken.
Madness.
And if this IS the case why is it only the BiB that are taking action. I notice that fire engines and ambulances are still nice and loud.....
Fire service etc get complaints also.
Sure the Police listen to complaints from the public & shape their policies/priorities in line with public concerns.
They also get complaints of course that people want more speed cameras , more speed humps, more speed limit reduction.
vonhosen said:That's recycled ignorance, a measure of the success of government propaganda on the uninterested and the gullible. It should be largely ignored, as should the complaints on sirens, were they introduced for fun ffs? Somebody somewhere needs to exercise judgement and not rely on any of the various politically correct manuals that are full of 'human rights' and 'commonsense wrongs'.
They also get complaints of course that people want more speed cameras, more speed humps, more speed limit reduction.
bigdods said:
Half way round the bend come across BiB in a mondeo, blues on coming straight at me.
This is yet another one of those 'I drove around the bend and was caught by surprise' stories.
Hmm..I think there's a theme developing here. I wonder if PHers (who are generally the crème de la crème of drivers) will learn anything?
deva link said:
Half way round the bend come across BiB in a mondeo, blues on coming straight at me.
This is yet another one of those 'I drove around the bend and was caught by surprise' stories.
Hmm..I think there's a theme developing here. I wonder if PHers (who are generally the crème de la crème of drivers) will learn anything?
Erm.... So what you are saying is that under those circumstances you would have slowed to 30 (on what I assume is an NSL A road) for the bend in case there was a car passing on a bend coming the other way?
deva link said:
Half way round the bend come across BiB in a mondeo, blues on coming straight at me.
This is yet another one of those 'I drove around the bend and was caught by surprise' stories.
Hmm..I think there's a theme developing here. I wonder if PHers (who are generally the crème de la crème of drivers) will learn anything?
You can't reasonably predict that another vehicle will be on the wrong side of the road overtaking in a dangerous place.
They sound quieter nowadays because they use directional sirens to avoid excessive noise pollution and make it easier for drivers to quickly identify where the sound is coming from. If you stand in front of a police car with the sirens on, they'll be deafening, but walk around to the side and the noise dies down somewhat.
Used to work close by to an electronics firm making them.When tested, were inside a cardboard box with packing, inside another box with more packing and could be heard good distance away - pity those close by.
Surprised in present climate of HSE regs etc, that vehicle occupants don't have to wear ear protection
>> Edited by oldie on Tuesday 23 May 16:33
Surprised in present climate of HSE regs etc, that vehicle occupants don't have to wear ear protection
>> Edited by oldie on Tuesday 23 May 16:33
Parrot of Doom said:
Half way round the bend come across BiB in a mondeo, blues on coming straight at me.
This is yet another one of those 'I drove around the bend and was caught by surprise' stories.
Hmm..I think there's a theme developing here. I wonder if PHers (who are generally the crème de la crème of drivers) will learn anything?
You can't reasonably predict that another vehicle will be on the wrong side of the road overtaking in a dangerous place.
Could be a wide load coming towards you, queue of traffic around the bend, cattle truck pulling out of a field so sideways across the road, motorbike overtaking towards you (that's pretty common on fast single carriageway A roads).
Ok some context here. Its an A road, NSL. Its wide enough to easily fit 3 cars across, 4 at a push so its big. Its a long sweeping bend with reasonable visibility. I think under those circumstances me taking this bend at 50 was perfectly reasonable. Yes I have seen plenty of people overtaking round that bend (the road is that wide) so I err on the side of caution and keep well left.
I dont think anyone would reasonably expect to come round a bend like that and find a car coming at them. Like I said numpty panicked and had clearly forced the BiB over to my side of the road.
I think both myself and the BiB aquitted ourselves very well and by quick thinking and reactions avoided any problems.
Of course there are those that will say 50 is too fast round a big wide A road bend. Cant recall EVER seeing anyone take any large bend on an NSL at much less than the speed I was doing. So enough of the hindsight and holier than thou 'oh I would have been going much slower' crap. You know that under those circumstances in a TVR you would have been doing more than the NSL. In fact most people take that corner at 70. I drive at a safe speed for the road, not just as fast as I can regardless of the circumstances.
Rant over ;-)
Not directed at anyone in particular I just get fed up with people saying one thing then doing the opposite.
Still doesnt change the fact that if the sirens had been audible to me coming round that bend I would have been better prepared - having seen how people tend to react at the sight of a flashing light if it had been someone else this could be a different story. And no I dont think I am gods gift to driving, Im an average bloke , average driver but I think about what I am doing when Im in the car.
I dont think anyone would reasonably expect to come round a bend like that and find a car coming at them. Like I said numpty panicked and had clearly forced the BiB over to my side of the road.
I think both myself and the BiB aquitted ourselves very well and by quick thinking and reactions avoided any problems.
Of course there are those that will say 50 is too fast round a big wide A road bend. Cant recall EVER seeing anyone take any large bend on an NSL at much less than the speed I was doing. So enough of the hindsight and holier than thou 'oh I would have been going much slower' crap. You know that under those circumstances in a TVR you would have been doing more than the NSL. In fact most people take that corner at 70. I drive at a safe speed for the road, not just as fast as I can regardless of the circumstances.
Rant over ;-)
Not directed at anyone in particular I just get fed up with people saying one thing then doing the opposite.
Still doesnt change the fact that if the sirens had been audible to me coming round that bend I would have been better prepared - having seen how people tend to react at the sight of a flashing light if it had been someone else this could be a different story. And no I dont think I am gods gift to driving, Im an average bloke , average driver but I think about what I am doing when Im in the car.
bigdods said:
An observation - travelling down an A road round a long left hand bend at about 50 in the chim with the roof off.
bigdods said:
...so I err on the side of caution and keep well left.
Have a read of Roadcraft, or take an advance driving course - I think it will help you. On a wide left hand bend you should be well to the right, not the left. You and the Police car would have seen each other earlier and the whole thing might have been somewhat less dramatic.
bigdods said:
Im an average bloke , average driver
I'd like to think people on PH, and *especially* those driving TVR's, were above (well above) average drivers.
>> Edited by deva link on Tuesday 23 May 23:12
Most people are average drivers - they think they are better but having a fast car doesnt make you better. Roadcraft sounds good although on this particular bend motorbikes have a habit of coming down the middle of the road at 100+ and I wouldnt be sure that the extra few feet of vis gained by being over toward the middle would give me enough time to prevent me ending up with a motorbike mascot on the bonnet ;-)
Perhaps I shold qualify average. I leave plenty of room when following. I dont go fast when its not safe, I do go fast when I judge the circumstances will permit. I am able to get in a racing Go kart and come 1st or 2nd against all those people who reckon they are the greatest driver ever. And in a formula ford (ok just a 2 hour session with other joe bloggs types) I lapped everyone and didnt have a single off the whole time. Im not and never will be a racing driver. But I have spent the last year of TVR ownership gradually exploring the limits of the car and having a lot of fun. DO I spend all my time sideways and being lary ? Nope. But do I make good progress and have fun. Oh yes.
I think its probably a good time now for one of those ride drive courses. And I am planning to get a track day in this year.
All I wanted to do was complain about police sirens LOL I should learn to keep my mouth shut
Perhaps I shold qualify average. I leave plenty of room when following. I dont go fast when its not safe, I do go fast when I judge the circumstances will permit. I am able to get in a racing Go kart and come 1st or 2nd against all those people who reckon they are the greatest driver ever. And in a formula ford (ok just a 2 hour session with other joe bloggs types) I lapped everyone and didnt have a single off the whole time. Im not and never will be a racing driver. But I have spent the last year of TVR ownership gradually exploring the limits of the car and having a lot of fun. DO I spend all my time sideways and being lary ? Nope. But do I make good progress and have fun. Oh yes.
I think its probably a good time now for one of those ride drive courses. And I am planning to get a track day in this year.
All I wanted to do was complain about police sirens LOL I should learn to keep my mouth shut
deva link said:I go into bends I can't see round just a bit slower these days. Why? Well I came round one bend on a nsl road I know well (where is no field entrances etc) and found a tree lying on the road blocking my lane
Half way round the bend come across BiB in a mondeo, blues on coming straight at me.
This is yet another one of those 'I drove around the bend and was caught by surprise' stories.
Hmm..I think there's a theme developing here. I wonder if PHers (who are generally the crème de la crème of drivers) will learn anything?
You can't reasonably predict that another vehicle will be on the wrong side of the road overtaking in a dangerous place.
Could be a wide load coming towards you, queue of traffic around the bend, cattle truck pulling out of a field so sideways across the road, motorbike overtaking towards you (that's pretty common on fast single carriageway A roads).
Fortunately I wasn't going very fast, and a full-on emergency stop was literally just enough to avoid impact with inches to spare. bigdods said:
All I wanted to do was complain about police sirens LOL I should learn to keep my mouth shut
I only mention this stuff because I care :hug:
I live in rural Cheshire and these accidents are commonplace. Just up the road from where we live a guy was killed pulling out of side road, where the other driver was doing 50MPH (same as you) when he could only see a max of 35Metres.
http://tinyurl.com/llpru
Interestingly, there was no question of prosecuting the surviving driver. Even if it is legally OK, it's still not a good idea to plough into somebody at 50MPH.
The other day I was stopped around a long sweeping bend (something I try hard to avoid but the back of the queue wasn't visible as I entered the bend). I stopped OK, (& pulled handbrake on and stood on the footbrake) but next thing a car came around the bend (at, I guess, 45MPH). No way could it stop, so the lady driver swerved around me and finished up several cars down the line - on the wrong side of the road! Her reversing back out of the way of oncoming traffic was interesting!
Here's the blurb:
Traditional sirens on emergency vehicles can cause unnecessary confusion, resulting in slowing of their passage. Apprehension on the part of other drivers and pedestrians increases the possibility of an accident. The Localizer siren alerts listeners quickly to the presence of the vehicle and, even more importantly, informs them of the direction of its approach.
Field tests of The Localizer within the UK, highlighted improvements resulting in:
emergency vehicles changing lanes less often,
emergency vehicles being forced to stop less frequently
faster journey times of up to 10%.
Thus, using the directional Localizer siren makes conditions safer for road users and emergency services alike.
The siren is being evaluated by many of the British emergency services, and has been adopted for new vehicles by various organisations, including Dorset Ambulance, Northumbria Ambulance, Humberside Fire & Rescue, Staffordshire Fire & Rescue, Leicestershire Fire & Rescue and several Police Forces.
-----------------------------------
From a driver's POV I have yet to have the pleasure so cannot comment. Usually the blues catch my eye in the mirror long before I hear any siren. However, from the POV of someone who lives on an A road where people just love to wrap themselves around trees at one end, and with a hospital at the other, they are a good thing... especially at 2 in the morning when there's no need for sirens anyway. You literally just here the things as they pass the house.
>> Edited by MC-VXR on Wednesday 24th May 17:10
>> Edited by MC-VXR on Wednesday 24th May 17:17
Traditional sirens on emergency vehicles can cause unnecessary confusion, resulting in slowing of their passage. Apprehension on the part of other drivers and pedestrians increases the possibility of an accident. The Localizer siren alerts listeners quickly to the presence of the vehicle and, even more importantly, informs them of the direction of its approach.
Field tests of The Localizer within the UK, highlighted improvements resulting in:
emergency vehicles changing lanes less often,
emergency vehicles being forced to stop less frequently
faster journey times of up to 10%.
Thus, using the directional Localizer siren makes conditions safer for road users and emergency services alike.
The siren is being evaluated by many of the British emergency services, and has been adopted for new vehicles by various organisations, including Dorset Ambulance, Northumbria Ambulance, Humberside Fire & Rescue, Staffordshire Fire & Rescue, Leicestershire Fire & Rescue and several Police Forces.
-----------------------------------
From a driver's POV I have yet to have the pleasure so cannot comment. Usually the blues catch my eye in the mirror long before I hear any siren. However, from the POV of someone who lives on an A road where people just love to wrap themselves around trees at one end, and with a hospital at the other, they are a good thing... especially at 2 in the morning when there's no need for sirens anyway. You literally just here the things as they pass the house.
>> Edited by MC-VXR on Wednesday 24th May 17:10
>> Edited by MC-VXR on Wednesday 24th May 17:17
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