Local cops on blues and twos
Discussion
At about 21:15 this evening in the Wandsworth area I was overtaken (I indicated and pulled over to let it pass) at speed by a local police car on blues and twos. The road has quite severe speed humps (could be anywhere, I know), it was dark, and there were cars parked along the road.
The car was travelling too fast (IMHO) for the conditions.
It looked pretty dangerous crashing onto speed humps and then landing and having to swerve around a parked car.
I wonder how much training the driver had to drive at speed in those conditions, not enough, I'd wager
The car was travelling too fast (IMHO) for the conditions.
It looked pretty dangerous crashing onto speed humps and then landing and having to swerve around a parked car.
I wonder how much training the driver had to drive at speed in those conditions, not enough, I'd wager
The speed humps in Wandsworth make anything over about 15mph look dangerous ...... it might not have been as quick as it looked - if you go over them too fast you end up with one suitably damaged Astra!
However, If you really think it was too fast then ring up and tell them. With the time and road name they should be able to work out who it was and tell exactly what speed the car did up the road. If excessive the driver will be dealt with.
>> Edited by john57 on Friday 26th May 23:52
However, If you really think it was too fast then ring up and tell them. With the time and road name they should be able to work out who it was and tell exactly what speed the car did up the road. If excessive the driver will be dealt with.
>> Edited by john57 on Friday 26th May 23:52
joe911 said:
I wonder how much training the driver had to drive at speed in those conditions, not enough, I'd wager
I'd also wager that if you were being robbed at knifepoint of your wife/girlfriend etc was being sexually assualted it wouldnt be fast enough. sorry - im being melodromatic, but you get my point. the problem with this kind of thing lies in the use of humps themselves. Paul Smith believes they cost hundreds of lives a year in lost time and I can well believe it. Dont hate the police driver, hate the humps!
I was going to say, did the guy crash? And what qualifications do you have to judge what is excessive speed for the conditions?
At the end of they day if he has the blues and twos on then he is getting to an emergency (which does not mean his pizza is getting cold) and I am sure the person who needed help is grateful that plod got there as quick as he could.
At the end of they day if he has the blues and twos on then he is getting to an emergency (which does not mean his pizza is getting cold) and I am sure the person who needed help is grateful that plod got there as quick as he could.
paolow said:
I'd also wager that if you were being robbed at knifepoint of your wife/girlfriend etc was being sexually assualted it wouldnt be fast enough. sorry - im being melodromatic, but you get my point. the problem with this kind of thing lies in the use of humps themselves. Paul Smith believes they cost hundreds of lives a year in lost time and I can well believe it. Dont hate the police driver, hate the humps!
Speed humps are a menace, i hate the things. There's certain places i can't go in the Elise because of them. Also agree re the Police driver. A complaint will lead nowhere, i've been in this situation myself (i gave a story on a recent thread about it...) where someone thought i was going 'too fast'. Means nothing, it's just that persons opinion and that's all.....jasandjules said:
I was going to say, did the guy crash? And what qualifications do you have to judge what is excessive speed for the conditions?
I did say it was IMHO - however, I have done a significant amount of advanced and high speed training and I would suggest that my appreciation of speed and distance is good.
jasandjules said:
At the end of they day if he has the blues and twos on then he is getting to an emergency (which does not mean his pizza is getting cold) and I am sure the person who needed help is grateful that plod got there as quick as he could.
My comments were really two-fold:
1) speed humps are a menace - I think all here agree with that;
2) the police driver might well be rushing to save someones life, or maybe (as more likely) something less dramatic - but there is a fine line between making good progress to an incident, and being a liability 'racing' to the scene.
My understanding is that typically "local" police in Astra's have only a very basic driver training and yet are allowed to run blues and twos. Can anyone here (VH perhaps?) describe what training they do in fact have?
Joe911 said ...
"My understanding is that typically "local" police in Astra's have only a very basic driver training and yet are allowed to run blues and twos. Can anyone here (VH perhaps?) describe what training they do in fact have?"
To drive an Astra using blue lights and siren in the Met area requires the officer to be at least a 'response driver'. This involves completing an intensive three week driving course ...... it is not basic driver training, people are required to reach a standard and pass a final drive on the last day. Quite a few fail ..... it is certainly not a course that just gives out a pass certificate at the end - at one point when a friend of mine completed the course 90% of people were failing it !!! As I said, not easy.
There is a lower class of driver that can drive the Astra's but they are not allowed to use the blue lights and siren. They are known as 'basic drivers' and can only use the car to get between A and B. If they are caught responding to a call or using the blue light, etc for anything other than warning someone of a hazard or stopping a car then they are removed from driving immediately.
>> Edited by john57 on Saturday 27th May 14:11
"My understanding is that typically "local" police in Astra's have only a very basic driver training and yet are allowed to run blues and twos. Can anyone here (VH perhaps?) describe what training they do in fact have?"
To drive an Astra using blue lights and siren in the Met area requires the officer to be at least a 'response driver'. This involves completing an intensive three week driving course ...... it is not basic driver training, people are required to reach a standard and pass a final drive on the last day. Quite a few fail ..... it is certainly not a course that just gives out a pass certificate at the end - at one point when a friend of mine completed the course 90% of people were failing it !!! As I said, not easy.
There is a lower class of driver that can drive the Astra's but they are not allowed to use the blue lights and siren. They are known as 'basic drivers' and can only use the car to get between A and B. If they are caught responding to a call or using the blue light, etc for anything other than warning someone of a hazard or stopping a car then they are removed from driving immediately.
>> Edited by john57 on Saturday 27th May 14:11
I found the Response course very difficult and demanding indeed, yet it amazes me how many people on PH refer to the drivers of such vehicles as 'Panda' or 'basic' drivers. It would be interesting to see how many of them would pass the course. Far too many people think that doing a few trackdays qualifies them as 'Advanced' drivers. Driving at speed on a public road simply cannot be compared to trackdays and airfield days, it's a completely different set of rules and demands on both car and driver. Apologies - the above isn't aimed at the original poster, just a quick rant by me! 
There are three levels of driver in the Metropolitan Police Service;
1) Basic. No training just assessed (similar to a driving test)to make sure you are adept enough to punt the Comissioner's car around. Used to be limited to the Metro and Fiesta Panda's. However these have been phased out as, amongst other things, they kept getting "sumped" on speed humps! Now can drive Astra's etc but NOT ON BLUES N TWOS. Only allowed to use blue light for signalling to stop or at scene of incident. Not allowed to use police RTA exemptions - speed etc. Sometimes these drivers have an orange disc in the windscreen to identify themselves as "Billy Basic."
2)Response. Three weeks training. Generally the majority of MPS drivers are this level. Drive Astra's, Focus's and Transits on patrol and respond to emergency calls on Blue's n Twos. They are usually not permitted to drive anything bigger than 2 Ltr. Not allowed to become involved in pursuits beyong the initial stages.
3)Advanced. Further four weeks training. Can drive almost anything on the fleet and are authorised to pursue. Most of the Met's Advanced Driver's are driving the "Area Cars" - marked BMW 530 saloons. Most nicks have one. Traffic Cars, ARV's, DPG, Flying Squad, Special Branch and Royalty Protection Cars are all driven by Advanced Drivers.
There are also various other specialist classifications such as Police Motorcyclist and PSU Carrier Driver which all involve further training.
I imagine the Astra you saw was driven by a Response Driver on an emergency call such as an assault or disturbance.
>> Edited by scobbo on Saturday 27th May 14:43
>> Edited by scobbo on Saturday 27th May 17:16
1) Basic. No training just assessed (similar to a driving test)to make sure you are adept enough to punt the Comissioner's car around. Used to be limited to the Metro and Fiesta Panda's. However these have been phased out as, amongst other things, they kept getting "sumped" on speed humps! Now can drive Astra's etc but NOT ON BLUES N TWOS. Only allowed to use blue light for signalling to stop or at scene of incident. Not allowed to use police RTA exemptions - speed etc. Sometimes these drivers have an orange disc in the windscreen to identify themselves as "Billy Basic."
2)Response. Three weeks training. Generally the majority of MPS drivers are this level. Drive Astra's, Focus's and Transits on patrol and respond to emergency calls on Blue's n Twos. They are usually not permitted to drive anything bigger than 2 Ltr. Not allowed to become involved in pursuits beyong the initial stages.
3)Advanced. Further four weeks training. Can drive almost anything on the fleet and are authorised to pursue. Most of the Met's Advanced Driver's are driving the "Area Cars" - marked BMW 530 saloons. Most nicks have one. Traffic Cars, ARV's, DPG, Flying Squad, Special Branch and Royalty Protection Cars are all driven by Advanced Drivers.
There are also various other specialist classifications such as Police Motorcyclist and PSU Carrier Driver which all involve further training.
I imagine the Astra you saw was driven by a Response Driver on an emergency call such as an assault or disturbance.
>> Edited by scobbo on Saturday 27th May 14:43
>> Edited by scobbo on Saturday 27th May 17:16
john57 said:
Joe911 said ...
"My understanding is that typically "local" police in Astra's have only a very basic driver training and yet are allowed to run blues and twos. Can anyone here (VH perhaps?) describe what training they do in fact have?"
To drive an Astra using blue lights and siren in the Met area requires the officer to be at least a 'response driver'. This involves completing an intensive three week driving course ...... it is not basic driver training, people are required to reach a standard and pass a final drive on the last day. Quite a few fail ..... it is certainly not a course that just gives out a pass certificate at the end - at one point when a friend of mine completed the course 90% of people were failing it !!! As I said, not easy.
There is a lower class of driver that can drive the Astra's but they are not allowed to use the blue lights and siren. They are known as 'basic drivers' and can only use the car to get between A and B. If they are caught responding to a call or using the blue light, etc for anything other than warning someone of a hazard or stopping a car then they are removed from driving immediately.
I would add that you can't really tell the level of training the driver has received from the car they are driving. (Particularly true for smaller less powerful cars)
The Astra may be a response classification car, but it may be an advanced driver driving it at the time.
>> Edited by vonhosen on Saturday 27th May 16:50
vonhosen said:
I would add that you can't really tell the level of training the driver has received from the car they are driving. (Particularly true for smaller less powerful cars)
The Astra may be a response classification car, but it may be an advanced driver driving it at the time.
It crossed my mind to mention this. However I understand that most Met Response Teams are so short of drivers these days that the chances of an Adavnced Driver being "spare" and taking an IRV (Astra) are small. Suppose it could be an ex Traffic section PS, or the Area Car could be sick.
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