CAR BUYING SCAM - BEWARE.....details here
Discussion
There is a scam doing the rounds, this had made millions and left thousands in debt..
The biggest scam of all, if someone offers to pay more than the asking price for your car, do not sell to them.
As an example this is how it works, lets assume your car is up for sale for £10,000.
Firstly they say, can we ask some questions about the car, can you email me some more pictures (all designed to make you believe they are real buyers) then they say we will send you a cheque for £15,000 instead of £10,000 and can you send the £5,000 balance, as it is for a friend etc etc and i owe him some money so just take your £10,000 and send me back the £5000 you think why not, they obviously trust me, then they send you the cheque, 3 days later it bounces, they call you and appologies saying they forgot to transfer the funds, and offer to do a bank trasfer as they dont want to "mess you around", you think ok why not I am not letting them have my car till it clears anyway (first mistake, they do not want your car), they ask you for your account no. and sort code and bank name, which you do as we all do, they say they will do it later that day and call you in three days to check it cleared then come and get the car, next day the call you to say that the transfer is done and can you call them when it clears so they can come get the car (all sound ok), also can you send them a fax to confirm that once the money has cleared you will honour the sale to them (as they are worried you may steal their money) now this is the clever bit, by saying they are worried and questioning your honourability you are sidetracked from what is actually happeing, you assure them that when the funds clear the car is theirs and agree to send the fax, they also say that on the fax can you include the cars Reg. no. and description and for you to sign the fax to validate it, (as they are worried), you agree.
At this point they have your :
Bank name
Bank address
Sort code
Account number
Your address
Your signature.
It is all over now, no transfer arrives, but funnily an overdraft appears and is maxed out with a large payment made to cash....
All too easy...
I did not get caught with this but I got close, Just trying to help.
The biggest scam of all, if someone offers to pay more than the asking price for your car, do not sell to them.
As an example this is how it works, lets assume your car is up for sale for £10,000.
Firstly they say, can we ask some questions about the car, can you email me some more pictures (all designed to make you believe they are real buyers) then they say we will send you a cheque for £15,000 instead of £10,000 and can you send the £5,000 balance, as it is for a friend etc etc and i owe him some money so just take your £10,000 and send me back the £5000 you think why not, they obviously trust me, then they send you the cheque, 3 days later it bounces, they call you and appologies saying they forgot to transfer the funds, and offer to do a bank trasfer as they dont want to "mess you around", you think ok why not I am not letting them have my car till it clears anyway (first mistake, they do not want your car), they ask you for your account no. and sort code and bank name, which you do as we all do, they say they will do it later that day and call you in three days to check it cleared then come and get the car, next day the call you to say that the transfer is done and can you call them when it clears so they can come get the car (all sound ok), also can you send them a fax to confirm that once the money has cleared you will honour the sale to them (as they are worried you may steal their money) now this is the clever bit, by saying they are worried and questioning your honourability you are sidetracked from what is actually happeing, you assure them that when the funds clear the car is theirs and agree to send the fax, they also say that on the fax can you include the cars Reg. no. and description and for you to sign the fax to validate it, (as they are worried), you agree.
At this point they have your :
Bank name
Bank address
Sort code
Account number
Your address
Your signature.
It is all over now, no transfer arrives, but funnily an overdraft appears and is maxed out with a large payment made to cash....
All too easy...
I did not get caught with this but I got close, Just trying to help.
Edited by jensen lunn on Sunday 4th June 16:30
The overpayment/refund scam is qute well known, but I think them knowing your bank details is probably a red herring - you don't need to go to all that length to get somebody's bank details and surely you need more information than that to extract money from somebody's account. Otherwise anyone who bought mail order and paid by cheque would be vulnerable to being ripped off.
Jensen's trying to be helpful, so we should be appreciative.
Whilst it may be true that anyone who is the recipient of your personal cheque may have all these details (although many personal cheques bear no address), there is a crucial difference between a normal transaction and the scams.
With normal transactions involving personal cheques, you the payer have selected the recipient and the method of payment. Most of us most of the time will be dealing with firms with real, physical addresses, ongoing businesses, a history of advertising in public media, etc. That collective history tends to establish the bona fides of the payee.
In the scams, the scammers have selected you. You're one of the thousands of innocent people who at any one time are offering a car for sale. The scammers could choose most any one of them, but they happened upon you. You start the process by reacting to them, although lacking any of the legitimising data upon which you rely in other transactions in which you might pay by cheque.
Whilst it may be true that anyone who is the recipient of your personal cheque may have all these details (although many personal cheques bear no address), there is a crucial difference between a normal transaction and the scams.
With normal transactions involving personal cheques, you the payer have selected the recipient and the method of payment. Most of us most of the time will be dealing with firms with real, physical addresses, ongoing businesses, a history of advertising in public media, etc. That collective history tends to establish the bona fides of the payee.
In the scams, the scammers have selected you. You're one of the thousands of innocent people who at any one time are offering a car for sale. The scammers could choose most any one of them, but they happened upon you. You start the process by reacting to them, although lacking any of the legitimising data upon which you rely in other transactions in which you might pay by cheque.
jensen lunn said:
Firstly they say, can we ask some questions about the car, can you email me some more pictures (all designed to make you believe they are real buyers) then they say we will send you a cheque for £15,000 instead of £10,000 and can you send the £5,000 balance, as it is for a friend etc etc and i owe him some money so just take your £10,000 and send me back the £5000 you think why not, they obviously trust me, then they send you the cheque, 3 days later it bounces,
I know this is well known on here, but for Jensen's sake, the way this usually works is they send you extra money and ask you to forward the difference by Western Union to their agent.
The cheque you get is usually drawn on a foreign bank, so you pay it in, and a few days later the bank says it's cleared. You then send the £5000 by Western Union (which is like sending cash) and then a few days later the £15000 cheque bounces.
NB: 'Cleared' is apparently almost meaningless. You have to ask if the cheque has been 'given value' (in other words, paid by the issuing bank).
Jay GTI said:My local supermarket does it all the time ... I do!
No offence and all, but that is pretty obviously a scam, the instant there is an over-payment/cash return suggested then anyone should run a mile.
Denis O said:Yes, but is there any news of the iceberg? (with acknowledgements to Bill Tidy)
[ ... ] Oh and by the way, the Titanic sank
Streaky
Also, I bought something off eBay. It arrived, I didn't like it, sent it back for a full refund. They wish to send the payment to my bank account rather than the credit card where it came from. I gave them my account no. and sort code. They obviously already have my name and address.
So should I be worried?
cheers
Mark
So should I be worried?
cheers
Mark
virgil said:
Again, sorry if I have missed the very obvious, but how does someone else get money out of my account without my aproval, overdraft or no overdraft?
Virgil.
They can make up a false cheque with your details on - just print out a cheque on a printer. One form of fraud is to get hold of a cheque off you for a low value, then change the amounts (like put a small advert in a newspaper, offering something people want at a giveaway price, but payment must be by cheque.
In America you can even call a company and read them the details of a cheque, and they will send you the goods - a mail order cheque. This seems ridiculously open to abuse, since in theory anyone who has a cheque from you can order products with it!
Darth Viper said:
virgil said:
Again, sorry if I have missed the very obvious, but how does someone else get money out of my account without my aproval, overdraft or no overdraft?
Virgil.
Virgil.
They can make up a false cheque with your details on - just print out a cheque on a printer. One form of fraud is to get hold of a cheque off you for a low value, then change the amounts (like put a small advert in a newspaper, offering something people want at a giveaway price, but payment must be by cheque.
In America you can even call a company and read them the details of a cheque, and they will send you the goods - a mail order cheque. This seems ridiculously open to abuse, since in theory anyone who has a cheque from you can order products with it!
I would seriously hope my bank would query any cheque not issued by them on their normal slips...I woud also think that whilst they could POSSIBLY get the money out this way - the bank would re-credit it without too much hassle, surely.
virgil said:
Darth Viper said:
In America you can even call a company and read them the details of a cheque, and they will send you the goods - a mail order cheque. This seems ridiculously open to abuse, since in theory anyone who has a cheque from you can order products with it!
I would seriously hope my bank would query any cheque not issued by them on their normal slips...I woud also think that whilst they could POSSIBLY get the money out this way - the bank would re-credit it without too much hassle, surely.
It always amazes me that when using a credit card in the US, they simply swipe it and hand it back you *before* you sign. They don't make any attempt to validate the signature.
deva link said:
It always amazes me that when using a credit card in the US, they simply swipe it and hand it back you *before* you sign. They don't make any attempt to validate the signature.
Not exactly unheard of here before C+P, particularly in certain petrol stations. Used to wind me up no end, grrrr!
Slightly off topic, but I was amazed that I walked into a Lloyds Bank at lunchtime with my cashpoint card, queued up and asked to withdraw £200 and got it without showing any ID/signing anything!!
It was a simple case of hand cashpoint card over, ask for £200. Said “I had already withdrawn £200 from the cashpoint that day”. Smile. Say I brought additional ID. Waved a closed passport and a piece of printed paper at her [Bill]. When she said she didn’t want it, say I got it just in case “As I could be anybody off the street”. Smile and say thank you for the £200.
So much for preventing fraud!!
It was a simple case of hand cashpoint card over, ask for £200. Said “I had already withdrawn £200 from the cashpoint that day”. Smile. Say I brought additional ID. Waved a closed passport and a piece of printed paper at her [Bill]. When she said she didn’t want it, say I got it just in case “As I could be anybody off the street”. Smile and say thank you for the £200.
So much for preventing fraud!!
rodney59 said:
Slightly off topic, but I was amazed that I walked into a Lloyds Bank at lunchtime with my cashpoint card, queued up and asked to withdraw £200 and got it without showing any ID/signing anything!!
It was a simple case of hand cashpoint card over, ask for £200. Said “I had already withdrawn £200 from the cashpoint that day”. Smile. Say I brought additional ID. Waved a closed passport and a piece of printed paper at her [Bill]. When she said she didn’t want it, say I got it just in case “As I could be anybody off the street”. Smile and say thank you for the £200.
So much for preventing fraud!!
It was a simple case of hand cashpoint card over, ask for £200. Said “I had already withdrawn £200 from the cashpoint that day”. Smile. Say I brought additional ID. Waved a closed passport and a piece of printed paper at her [Bill]. When she said she didn’t want it, say I got it just in case “As I could be anybody off the street”. Smile and say thank you for the £200.
So much for preventing fraud!!
You had to sign nothing? - I'd complain to the bank - I always have to at least sign.
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