Waste of time?
Discussion
A colleague of mine recently got flashed doing 41 in a 30 zone. He was unfamiliar with the area and hadn't noticed the limit had dropped from a 40 to a 30 on the road he was on.
Hands up, fair cop guv'nor, where do I send the fine?
Unfortunately not that easy. My colleague is from Turkey and he's driving in this country on a foreign license. He was happy to pay the fine and even wrote them a letter to say so. In response he got a court summons.
This morning he arrived at the court bright and early and put in a room with 25 others where everybody had to say out loud why they were there. Not for an educational thing, just so the clerk could write it all down and plan who would be going in first. Rather an embarrassing experience for him and not helping him relax at all. The guy is due in court in a foreign country and he's understandabley nervous.
20 minutes the clerk comes back in and says "Who's the foreign one? Yours will be the easiest so we'll get you over and done with first"
He's led into a room where three magistrates and a court reporter are sat. They read out the charge and ask if he has anything to say.
He says "Sorry for speeding"
They say "Don't do it again"
Final result is a 60 fine and somebody from the Foreign Office will contact the Turkish government to make sure this criminal has points put on his license.
A complete waste of time and money? Or a worthwhile exercise to deter speeding?
As an aside, he very much doubts the Turkish government will do anything about these points because they've only just introduced a points system there and it doesn't cover foreign issues yet. Therefore does he now have to proactively inform his insurance company?
Hands up, fair cop guv'nor, where do I send the fine?
Unfortunately not that easy. My colleague is from Turkey and he's driving in this country on a foreign license. He was happy to pay the fine and even wrote them a letter to say so. In response he got a court summons.
This morning he arrived at the court bright and early and put in a room with 25 others where everybody had to say out loud why they were there. Not for an educational thing, just so the clerk could write it all down and plan who would be going in first. Rather an embarrassing experience for him and not helping him relax at all. The guy is due in court in a foreign country and he's understandabley nervous.
20 minutes the clerk comes back in and says "Who's the foreign one? Yours will be the easiest so we'll get you over and done with first"
He's led into a room where three magistrates and a court reporter are sat. They read out the charge and ask if he has anything to say.
He says "Sorry for speeding"
They say "Don't do it again"
Final result is a 60 fine and somebody from the Foreign Office will contact the Turkish government to make sure this criminal has points put on his license.
A complete waste of time and money? Or a worthwhile exercise to deter speeding?
As an aside, he very much doubts the Turkish government will do anything about these points because they've only just introduced a points system there and it doesn't cover foreign issues yet. Therefore does he now have to proactively inform his insurance company?
Turkey is not even in the EU so no transfer of points is possibe. Points transfer is not even possible within the EU. You can be banned in another country and, in the UK, have the points notionally applied to a 'ghost' UK licence for 'totting-up' purposes.
If insured abroad it's doubtful if any insurer will be interested or have any means of checking.
If insured abroad it's doubtful if any insurer will be interested or have any means of checking.
Not exactly crime of the century is it 
sound like your mate was totally willing to settle it amicably and as efficiently as possible - obviously that's why the officials had to string it into something rediculous. Expect you can be pretty sure if it had been one of our BiB in a car they'd have either given him a few stern words or a pay by post jobby.
sound like your mate was totally willing to settle it amicably and as efficiently as possible - obviously that's why the officials had to string it into something rediculous. Expect you can be pretty sure if it had been one of our BiB in a car they'd have either given him a few stern words or a pay by post jobby.TBH I would be asking for the details of the clerk of the court and complaining of racism and discrimination in your treatment by that particular court. Write to the LCD, see what they come back with.......
Other than that, as above, outside of the EU, and no treaty in respect of points is applicable as far as I can tell....
Other than that, as above, outside of the EU, and no treaty in respect of points is applicable as far as I can tell....
jasandjules said:
TBH I would be asking for the details of the clerk of the court and complaining of racism and discrimination in your treatment by that particular court. Write to the LCD, see what they come back with.......
Clerk said:
Who's the foreign one? Yours will be the easiest so we'll get you over and done with first
Like to see them say that to me. Bet they would love to be refered to as "the foreign one" when they were in another country.
Edited by timsta on Monday 5th June 13:33
On the other hand, should he even be driving in this country on a Turkish licence? He only gets a year's grace on his current licence.
DVLA says
If he has gone to the bother of buying and insuring a car it is likely that he will also have to take a UK driving test pretty soon as he will have been here a year. In that case he will find the points ready and waiting on his new licence!
As far as insurance goes most people only report new points at renewal. If matey is still driving in the UK at renewal he will definitely need a UK licence anyway.
DVLA says
If he has gone to the bother of buying and insuring a car it is likely that he will also have to take a UK driving test pretty soon as he will have been here a year. In that case he will find the points ready and waiting on his new licence!
As far as insurance goes most people only report new points at renewal. If matey is still driving in the UK at renewal he will definitely need a UK licence anyway.
Clerk said:
Who's the foreign one? Yours will be the easiest so we'll get you over and done with first
I think you're all too touchy - he *is* foreign after all, and he was dealt with quickly and not kept hanging about. They could have stuck him on last. And he only got the basic fine, not a extra-loaded one that a UK resident who went to court would have got - surely that's discrimination?
I *am* amazed that he bothered, though. Why not just make them whistle for their money?
jasandjules said:
TBH I would be asking for the details of the clerk of the court and complaining of racism and discrimination in your treatment by that particular court. Write to the LCD, see what they come back with.......
Sorry jasandjules....this kind of politically correct nonsense is one of the factors making our country a worse place than it has to be. What on earth did the clerk do that was racist or discriminatory?? Bollocks I'm afraid.
Write to the LCD??? Do me a favour.....
J.
jezzaaa said:
Sorry jasandjules....this kind of politically correct nonsense is one of the factors making our country a worse place than it has to be. What on earth did the clerk do that was racist or discriminatory?? Bollocks I'm afraid.
Write to the LCD??? Do me a favour.....
J.
Afraid to see I have spent too much time in Mags courts and witnessed racist clerks. They influence the mags quite significantly and at times unjustly.
Believe me I am not generally PC, but there is a time and a place.
jasandjules said:
Believe me I am not generally PC, but there is a time and a place.
No. There are certainly times and places to stick up for the rights of individuals or groups. Political Correctness however is an appalling, cancerous, excuse for a policy that serves to do nothing other than stifle debate.
I wouldn't get too hung up on what the clerk may or may not have said.
I might have misheard what my colleague said and it could have just as easily been "Whose is the foreign one?" I sometimes struggle to understand what he says. He is a bloody foreigner after all
Either way, he wasn't offended by it. He was offended by the complete and utter waste of his time and the pathetic and costly use of resources at the courthouse.
I might have misheard what my colleague said and it could have just as easily been "Whose is the foreign one?" I sometimes struggle to understand what he says. He is a bloody foreigner after all
Either way, he wasn't offended by it. He was offended by the complete and utter waste of his time and the pathetic and costly use of resources at the courthouse.
Having just come back from turkey and driven a few hundred miles there, I don't think they'll give aflying f**k about the points over there. I was in the south west, and people generally drive in the middle of the road (both directions) motorbikes use either gutter, total disregard of speed limits, total disregard for no-overtaking markings / signs. Only thing people did do was slow down so as not to mow down TURTLES!
Anyway, the guy was done for speeding, due process seems to have been carried out (can't issue FPN notice for foreign license iirc) and the guy got a sensible (given current legislation) fine. What I'd call a "fair cop"*.
*All arguments about whether speeding is actually "wrong" aside...
Anyway, the guy was done for speeding, due process seems to have been carried out (can't issue FPN notice for foreign license iirc) and the guy got a sensible (given current legislation) fine. What I'd call a "fair cop"*.
*All arguments about whether speeding is actually "wrong" aside...
tigger1 said:
Anyway, the guy was done for speeding, due process seems to have been carried out (can't issue FPN notice for foreign license iirc) and the guy got a sensible (given current legislation) fine. What I'd call a "fair cop"
Agreed but if they'd taken his offer of sending them a cheque in the first place then it would have been a fairer cop all round, not least the taxpayer who will now have to make up the difference between his 60 quid and the cost of a clerk, three magistrates and a court reporter...
thekirbyfake said:
tigger1 said:
Anyway, the guy was done for speeding, due process seems to have been carried out (can't issue FPN notice for foreign license iirc) and the guy got a sensible (given current legislation) fine. What I'd call a "fair cop"
Agreed but if they'd taken his offer of sending them a cheque in the first place then it would have been a fairer cop all round, not least the taxpayer who will now have to make up the difference between his 60 quid and the cost of a clerk, three magistrates and a court reporter...
Urm, yeah - but the law doesn't (I think) allow for that, in te same way as I don't think I can pay a copper 60 notes at the side of the road if i got stopped?
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff