Red Traffic light, Ambulance on a call
Discussion
I know this has been covered before but I couldnt find it in the search, so sorry for asking again but...
I was sat at a red light. Ambulance comes up behind blues and twos. He approached me from direct behind, turned his normal siren off and starting bleeping a different type of siren at me, clearly expecting me to jump the light and get out of the way. After a few bleeps at me he realised I wasnt going to immediately move (I was considering my options and other traffic) and then noticed the inside lane of 3 was empty, used that and proceeded on his way. Now I have read plenty of posts saying its illegal to jump a red light to let emergency services through etc. etc. and this all ran through my mind. In the event I didnt need to do anything but I would be interest to know - what would YOU do in this situation - lets assume all 3 lanes are blocked by traffic and hes behind you flashing and making lots of noise.
Its easy to sit here and say 'oh well I wouldnt run the light' but its a different story (as I discovered) when theres a loud siren and big blue lights coming at you. I was looking for a way to get clear without jumping the light as I didnt just want to react and put myself in danger.
And on the same point has anyone got any concrete evidence of a driver being booked for this offence ? I often see on forums that people have been ticketed for doing this but its always a mate of a mate, no evidence. Might help me make my mind up in future....
Point to note, there was no traffic light camera. If there had been then it would have been black and white for me, I would just stay put wait for the green as I have zero faith in discretion of the law in these matters.
And also why dont they put bigger engines in those things ... dual carriageway I caught up to him once the lights were green and sailed past at 70 he was clearly pushing it (lots of diesel smoke, high revs) and had only reached 60.
Let the debate begin !
Dodsy
I was sat at a red light. Ambulance comes up behind blues and twos. He approached me from direct behind, turned his normal siren off and starting bleeping a different type of siren at me, clearly expecting me to jump the light and get out of the way. After a few bleeps at me he realised I wasnt going to immediately move (I was considering my options and other traffic) and then noticed the inside lane of 3 was empty, used that and proceeded on his way. Now I have read plenty of posts saying its illegal to jump a red light to let emergency services through etc. etc. and this all ran through my mind. In the event I didnt need to do anything but I would be interest to know - what would YOU do in this situation - lets assume all 3 lanes are blocked by traffic and hes behind you flashing and making lots of noise.
Its easy to sit here and say 'oh well I wouldnt run the light' but its a different story (as I discovered) when theres a loud siren and big blue lights coming at you. I was looking for a way to get clear without jumping the light as I didnt just want to react and put myself in danger.
And on the same point has anyone got any concrete evidence of a driver being booked for this offence ? I often see on forums that people have been ticketed for doing this but its always a mate of a mate, no evidence. Might help me make my mind up in future....
Point to note, there was no traffic light camera. If there had been then it would have been black and white for me, I would just stay put wait for the green as I have zero faith in discretion of the law in these matters.
And also why dont they put bigger engines in those things ... dual carriageway I caught up to him once the lights were green and sailed past at 70 he was clearly pushing it (lots of diesel smoke, high revs) and had only reached 60.
Let the debate begin !
Dodsy
Edited by bigdods on Friday 9th June 16:14
I'd have jumped the light. If it was safe, obviously.
My old man used to drive an ambulance when they had the original big american lumps under the bonnet. On an emergency transfer, the police escort couldn't keep up...! They used to try and take numbers if anyone had to do anything semi-legal to help them through and then offer to help them out if they got in a fix. Incidentally, they used to get at least one flash every shift. What a job!
They swapped them for cruddy smokey dervs to save cash. And there was us thinking they were trying to save lives!
My old man used to drive an ambulance when they had the original big american lumps under the bonnet. On an emergency transfer, the police escort couldn't keep up...! They used to try and take numbers if anyone had to do anything semi-legal to help them through and then offer to help them out if they got in a fix. Incidentally, they used to get at least one flash every shift. What a job!
They swapped them for cruddy smokey dervs to save cash. And there was us thinking they were trying to save lives!
falcemob said:
I would probably go through the red light for an ambulance or fire appliance but not police unless they got out and directed me to do so.
To be fair, if plod are on a shout, it could be someone has been knifed/lady been raped etc.. and I would personally get my a**e out the way..... If I was in trouble I would want them to get to me as soon as.
Ironically, it's the Police one that is easiest, as the uniformed officer can order you through the light whereas the ambulance driver cannot.
You did the right thing. Sounds like he was a bit of a numpty if he didn't spot an empty lane when there was one. Poor form to intimidate with blues and twos if the driver in front is unable or unwilling to move.
You did the right thing. Sounds like he was a bit of a numpty if he didn't spot an empty lane when there was one. Poor form to intimidate with blues and twos if the driver in front is unable or unwilling to move.
I would get out of the way, someone elses life is a dam sight more important than a small fine!
Another thing to do, always leave enough space infront of you for things like that (and car jacking) i.e. you should always be able to see tarmac between your bonnet and the tyre of the car infront, and don't ever pull right up to the line, that way, at most traffic lights any emergency vehicle could get between you and the island
Another thing to do, always leave enough space infront of you for things like that (and car jacking) i.e. you should always be able to see tarmac between your bonnet and the tyre of the car infront, and don't ever pull right up to the line, that way, at most traffic lights any emergency vehicle could get between you and the island
It wouldn't even cross my mind not to get out of the way, and if that meant driving through a red light, then so be it. If you've got to interrupt the flow of traffic acrooss a junction, then you do it carefully and slowly, but you do it nonetheless. To hell with the risk of a ticket.
CombeMarshal said:
...someone elses life is a dam sight more important than a small fine!...
Only the driver of the ESV knows what the priority is for how fast he should drive, what signals should be disobeyed etc. He can make choice to go around blockaes or wait a few seconds for the lights to change.
OK, so general opinion is go for it to hell with the ticket. So what if you had 9 points on your licence ? might change your point of view. In my case I have no points and happy to keep it that way. In fact I agree with a previous post - for an ambulance or fire truck get out of the way. For police exercise caution - if plod is clearly indicating using hand signals for you to go through the light then it should be a no brainer :-)
I was hoping someone would pop up with evidence of being nicked for doing just this, would be good to know how it is viewed by the plod.
And as I said, if there had been a red light camera I wouldnt have moved - No point deliberatley putting yourself in the firing line.
And of course my final point - he was in a Diesel lump so wasnt going to be going anywhere quickly.......
I was hoping someone would pop up with evidence of being nicked for doing just this, would be good to know how it is viewed by the plod.
And as I said, if there had been a red light camera I wouldnt have moved - No point deliberatley putting yourself in the firing line.
And of course my final point - he was in a Diesel lump so wasnt going to be going anywhere quickly.......
I have jumped lights in the past in this situation and would do again providing that im 100% sure that its safe to do so.
Most of the time if I hear a siren behind me I will leave plenty of space around me if possible to give more options should the ambulance end up behind me. But sometimes your allready stopped and they get stuck behind you and moving forwards a bit is the only option.
Wouldnt risk it if there was a red light camera though.
Most of the time if I hear a siren behind me I will leave plenty of space around me if possible to give more options should the ambulance end up behind me. But sometimes your allready stopped and they get stuck behind you and moving forwards a bit is the only option.
Wouldnt risk it if there was a red light camera though.
If you go through a light to get out of the way of an emergency services vehicle and do it safely there should be no problem at all. If the junction has a red light camera that goes off it should go off for the blue light vehicle going through as well and would be obvious to someone looking at the pictures at a later date what happened .......
TBH I don't think it happens that much anyway as people generally manage to create a gap for whoever is trying to get through ... as they don't want to be pushed into the junction themselves. I don't think I have seen anyone set of a camera when I have been on calls other than me
I know some people on here say otherwise but I actually went and spoke to the guys who view the pictures for the Met and they said they use common sense with regard to people getting out of the way. I have no reason to disbelieve them as they know the impression most motorists have of cameras full stop and don't really want to make matters worse !! I stress this is for the Met and I can't comment on practices elsewere though hopefully they apply common sense as well.
Local authority cameras on the other hand seem a bit different - one of our marked traffic cars using blue lights and siren got an NIP for entering a bus lane to get past stationary traffic right near the scene of a fatal accident ! The NIP got sorted but only after a file containing numerous bits of paper was created and signed by all and sundry to confirm the car was on a legitimate call.
TBH I don't think it happens that much anyway as people generally manage to create a gap for whoever is trying to get through ... as they don't want to be pushed into the junction themselves. I don't think I have seen anyone set of a camera when I have been on calls other than me
I know some people on here say otherwise but I actually went and spoke to the guys who view the pictures for the Met and they said they use common sense with regard to people getting out of the way. I have no reason to disbelieve them as they know the impression most motorists have of cameras full stop and don't really want to make matters worse !! I stress this is for the Met and I can't comment on practices elsewere though hopefully they apply common sense as well.
Local authority cameras on the other hand seem a bit different - one of our marked traffic cars using blue lights and siren got an NIP for entering a bus lane to get past stationary traffic right near the scene of a fatal accident ! The NIP got sorted but only after a file containing numerous bits of paper was created and signed by all and sundry to confirm the car was on a legitimate call.
I would have moved through the light to make room for the 'bus to pass - always assuming it was safe to do so.
That doesn't mean that I would have moved across the junction - merely made room.
If that had tripped the red light camera, I would have made an argument in mitigation (emergency/necessity)... but then, I have a clean licence (ATM) and would prefer to make room for an ambulance on an emergency call.
That doesn't mean that I would have moved across the junction - merely made room.
If that had tripped the red light camera, I would have made an argument in mitigation (emergency/necessity)... but then, I have a clean licence (ATM) and would prefer to make room for an ambulance on an emergency call.
john57 said:
Local authority cameras on the other hand seem a bit different - one of our marked traffic cars using blue lights and siren got an NIP for entering a bus lane to get past stationary traffic right near the scene of a fatal accident ! The NIP got sorted but only after a file containing numerous bits of paper was created and signed by all and sundry to confirm the car was on a legitimate call.
And there's the problem. Us MoTPs don't have access to these various bits of paper. We have to prove our innocence but normally we aren't believed to be able to think sensibly for ourselves and get a blunt instrument approach to our 'law breaking'.
Until we are given some credit for managing to think for ourselves I would most likely be inclined to let the 'Trained' driver find a way round me. After all, this, as Judge has previously noted, is what the 'Trained' drivers are trained to do. I am not allowed to make such life or death decisions when driving my car beacause I'm not 'Trained'.
With zero points on my licence I've got a bit of leeway, but if there were a camera at the junction I'd stay put.
My licence and ability to drive for work are more important than the life of a total stranger. Sorry but thats the way it is, I'm not going to risk my livelihood (and therefore my wellbeing) for anyone I don't know.
My licence and ability to drive for work are more important than the life of a total stranger. Sorry but thats the way it is, I'm not going to risk my livelihood (and therefore my wellbeing) for anyone I don't know.
jasandjules said:
I would have gone through the red light if there was room to do so.
Any ticket I would fight tooth and nail.
Any ticket I would fight tooth and nail.
And you would sadly lose. Letter in paper last week from a doctor stated he had moved across a red light to allow an ambulance through. He was done despite going to court to explain and having a letter of confirmation from the ambulance service.
And these fools wonder why we now need to think of of ourselves first.
Parrot of Doom said:
With zero points on my licence I've got a bit of leeway, but if there were a camera at the junction I'd stay put.
My licence and ability to drive for work are more important than the life of a total stranger. Sorry but thats the way it is, I'm not going to risk my livelihood (and therefore my wellbeing) for anyone I don't know.
My licence and ability to drive for work are more important than the life of a total stranger. Sorry but thats the way it is, I'm not going to risk my livelihood (and therefore my wellbeing) for anyone I don't know.
But you'd expect someone to do the same for you if you were dying somewhere????
As for the 9 points argument, How the hell anyone manages to get that many is beyond me, but as said, what are a few points to something that could be life or death?
Tafia said:
And you would sadly lose. Letter in paper last week from a doctor stated he had moved across a red light to allow an ambulance through. He was done despite going to court to explain and having a letter of confirmation from the ambulance service.
And these fools wonder why we now need to think of of ourselves first.
When I first started driving, and when the quality and safety of one's driving was considered in case of an offence by someone with intelligence, I would always safely move away happy in the knowledge that I'd get a fair hearing. But that's not the case any more is it?
If these pricks insist on booking me for being safe and courteous and maybe even saving someone's life, I just can't take that risk. Frankly because one day I might need those three points to save my livelihood, the roof over my family's head, the marriage, who knows what else? I can't afford the risk.
SM
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff