For what it is worth....Laser at Staples Corner
Discussion
WARNING: Nasty laser trap on A5 Edgware Road southbound at Staples Corner. 
For those of you not familiar with this road, it is a dead straight section of dual-carriageway with no pedestrian access and no junctions...oh, and it also just happens to have a 30mph limit.
Lucky for me I was out in the old jalopy with my brother and niece. It meant we were just cruising along a stretch of road I would normally drive at a much more appropriate speed.
In the distance I could see the Hi-Vis jackets and thought it was workmen digging up the pavement. As we got closer I could see it was the police. "Odd", I thought. "Perhaps there was an accident or something." But no, among the small crowd of officers was one carefully aiming a large hand-held object at the oncoming traffic like it was a rifle.
Shooting fish in a barrel it was.
But perhaps I am being unkind and they were just testing out their new toy before taking it elsewhere. Maybe to catch the 40mph idiots that drive past my house (crowded residential area, cars parked both sides).
For those of you not familiar with this road, it is a dead straight section of dual-carriageway with no pedestrian access and no junctions...oh, and it also just happens to have a 30mph limit.
Lucky for me I was out in the old jalopy with my brother and niece. It meant we were just cruising along a stretch of road I would normally drive at a much more appropriate speed.
In the distance I could see the Hi-Vis jackets and thought it was workmen digging up the pavement. As we got closer I could see it was the police. "Odd", I thought. "Perhaps there was an accident or something." But no, among the small crowd of officers was one carefully aiming a large hand-held object at the oncoming traffic like it was a rifle.
Shooting fish in a barrel it was.
But perhaps I am being unkind and they were just testing out their new toy before taking it elsewhere. Maybe to catch the 40mph idiots that drive past my house (crowded residential area, cars parked both sides).
leadfootlydon said:
WARNING: Nasty laser trap on A5 Edgware Road southbound at Staples Corner.
For those of you not familiar with this road, it is a dead straight section of dual-carriageway with no pedestrian access and no junctions...oh, and it also just happens to have a 30mph limit.
Lucky for me I was out in the old jalopy with my brother and niece. It meant we were just cruising along a stretch of road I would normally drive at a much more appropriate speed.
In the distance I could see the Hi-Vis jackets and thought it was workmen digging up the pavement. As we got closer I could see it was the police. "Odd", I thought. "Perhaps there was an accident or something." But no, among the small crowd of officers was one carefully aiming a large hand-held object at the oncoming traffic like it was a rifle.
Shooting fish in a barrel it was.
But perhaps I am being unkind and they were just testing out their new toy before taking it elsewhere. Maybe to catch the 40mph idiots that drive past my house (crowded residential area, cars parked both sides).
For those of you not familiar with this road, it is a dead straight section of dual-carriageway with no pedestrian access and no junctions...oh, and it also just happens to have a 30mph limit.
Lucky for me I was out in the old jalopy with my brother and niece. It meant we were just cruising along a stretch of road I would normally drive at a much more appropriate speed.
In the distance I could see the Hi-Vis jackets and thought it was workmen digging up the pavement. As we got closer I could see it was the police. "Odd", I thought. "Perhaps there was an accident or something." But no, among the small crowd of officers was one carefully aiming a large hand-held object at the oncoming traffic like it was a rifle.
Shooting fish in a barrel it was.
But perhaps I am being unkind and they were just testing out their new toy before taking it elsewhere. Maybe to catch the 40mph idiots that drive past my house (crowded residential area, cars parked both sides).
The history behind that particular stretch of road is that it used to be NSL (70mph limit), but unfortunately people didn't adjust that speed (or higher ones than that) as they entered the 30mph limit (where you probably saw the Police standing). With there being a busy slip road on & entrances to industrial estates at the location, there used to be a GATSO set at 60mph where the 30s started. It unfortunately used to run out of film quickly & of course the old "placing a camera after NSLs just inside the 30's is a revenue scam" used to get trotted out. The camera didn't stop the problem & lots of people used to just get points or disqualified. The short dual carriageway was then changed to a 30 just like the sections that immeadiately preceeded it & followed. It now gets periodically enforced by trafpol officers. Suppose if people can't adjust their speed sensibly by themselves, then limits will change to force that behavioural change.
vonhosen said:
With there being a busy slip road on & entrances to industrial estates at the location, there used to be a GATSO set at 60mph where the 30s started. It unfortunately used to run out of film quickly & of course the old "placing a camera after NSLs just inside the 30's is a revenue scam" used to get trotted out. The camera didn't stop the problem & lots of people used to just get points or disqualified. The short dual carriageway was then changed to a 30 just like the sections that immeadiately preceeded it & followed. It now gets periodically enforced by trafpol officers. Suppose if people can't adjust their speed sensibly by themselves, then limits will change to force that behavioural change.
Those are the words of a social engineer not a police officer concerned with road safety. It may well be that there have been several unreported fatacs near that busy slip road with entrances to whatever, or it may be that there aren't. If not, then all the process bunkum in the world doesn't justify a camera or anything else if the outcomes don't warrant such a repsonse. "The camera didn't stop the problem" didn't you mean to say that the camera didn't stop people driving safely but illegally?
"People got points" well OK but did they cause lots of accidents that didn't make the press? Did giving them points cure the "problem"? Apparently by your own words, no.
"Force behavioural change" well well, are we talking about a cultural portfolio in East Germany before reunification, the former Soviet Union's core curriculum, Pol Pot's diary, or life on the roads in free Great Britain? Another example of unacceptable arrogant interventionist totalitarian control freakery. No hawkers or circulars, thanks.
Overall there's not much there to recommend the dismal failure of a road safety strategy we're currently suffering - and the attempt at justifying it simply points out all its failings all the more clearly - while describing very neatly everything that's wrong about officialdom's approach to governance generally.
Incompetence, arrogance, interference, failure.
7db said:
On the bright side for all you indignant types -- someone just got a FPN for 3ps and £60 up there for 70 in a 30...
Indignant? Incandescent on behalf of those whose lives are shortened or changed for the worse by the nonsensical road 'safety' priorities of this incapable non-government, and its sycophantic lackeys in the once impartial but now politicised public services. Obviously it was illegal but to misquote Dustin Hoffperson's dentist, was it safe? Time of day? Other traffic? Nature of veehickle and driving etc? It would seem that when it's possible to exceed the limit around there it's safe, when unsafe it will not be possible a lot of the time. Numbers alone don't say much except to brainwashed speed kills unthinking types, on the limited info available maybe it was unsafe maybe not. The sad fact that this bears no relation to the situation (in reality) or the outcome (in law) is another indictment of this country's misguided hate affair with speed, and the resulting failure to make any significant improvements in road safety.
turbobloke said:
7db said:
On the bright side for all you indignant types -- someone just got a FPN for 3ps and £60 up there for 70 in a 30...
Indignant? Incandescent on behalf of those whose lives are shortened or changed for the worse by the nonsensical road 'safety' priorities of this incapable non-government, and its sycophantic lackeys in the once impartial but now politicised public services. Obviously it was illegal but to misquote Dustin Hoffperson's dentist, was it safe? Time of day? Other traffic? Nature of veehickle and driving etc? It would seem that when it's possible to exceed the limit around there it's safe, when unsafe it will not be possible a lot of the time. Numbers alone don't say much except to brainwashed speed kills unthinking types, on the limited info available maybe it was unsafe maybe not. The sad fact that this bears no relation to the situation (in reality) or the outcome (in law) is another indictment of this country's misguided hate affair with speed, and the resulting failure to make any significant improvements in road safety.
And can you say that those who were stopped were travelling safely for the time & conditions, or are you merely assuming by your display of incandescence that they were ?
You wanted trafpol using their discretion instead of cameras. You got it & you still aren't happy, without having the full facts of who they decided to prosecute & why.
Edited by vonhosen on Sunday 18th June 20:22
Ah, vonhosen, we meet again!
Unsurprisingly, I have to agree with TB. The nanny-state thing has gone too far.
We are talking about a dead straight section of dual carriageway. There is nothing dangerous about traveling along it at 50mph or 60mph. Admittedly, at the end of the dual carriageway, the road reverts to being a 30mph limit, but even there it is still a big wide straight road with plenty of warning and space for drivers to naturally slow down.
Drivers are being penailsed for exceeding an arbitrary number, not for doing anything inherantly dangerous.
Just out of interest, what are the accident figures for that section of road?
Unsurprisingly, I have to agree with TB. The nanny-state thing has gone too far.
We are talking about a dead straight section of dual carriageway. There is nothing dangerous about traveling along it at 50mph or 60mph. Admittedly, at the end of the dual carriageway, the road reverts to being a 30mph limit, but even there it is still a big wide straight road with plenty of warning and space for drivers to naturally slow down.
Drivers are being penailsed for exceeding an arbitrary number, not for doing anything inherantly dangerous.
Just out of interest, what are the accident figures for that section of road?
Just for the record, this was late on a Thursday morning. Bright blue sky. The traffic was very light. Apart from us, there was only one car in front and one or two a long way behind us.
Even though the offside lane was clear and the car was capable, with the family on board I just wasn't in the mood to pull out and overtake like I would normally have done.
So I was lucky that day. Now, of course, I know what plod is up to and, like a trained rat, will be even more vigilantly scanning the horizon and checking my wobbly speedo. And this is somebody's idea of making me a safer driver.
Even though the offside lane was clear and the car was capable, with the family on board I just wasn't in the mood to pull out and overtake like I would normally have done.
So I was lucky that day. Now, of course, I know what plod is up to and, like a trained rat, will be even more vigilantly scanning the horizon and checking my wobbly speedo. And this is somebody's idea of making me a safer driver.
it, I'm gonna start a red flag making company, it's only a matter of time leadfootlydon said:
Now, of course, I know what plod is up to and, like a trained rat, will be even more vigilantly scanning the horizon and checking my wobbly speedo. And this is somebody's idea of making me a safer driver.
But you don't have the luxury of scanning the horizon. The approved scamera operational range is well beyond the distance that would be safe to use visual analysis with any degree of accuracy, let alone analyse and take action.
In fact this is the intended message from the strategy, along with hidden and low vis. cameras. To start with they want the fnding to make the treats evident at the expense of the victims. Then they can create social control almost by threats alone. Osama proves that. Just a relatively little action to remind people every now and again.
Whatever the major 'issues' of our times you can seem the same guiding principles behind them - all for our own good of course, even in the case of bin Laden's crowd who seek cultural change towards their own ideals at any cost.
There is an excellent analysis of this philosophy, related to alleged global warming but genreally applicable at
http://greenspin.blogspot.com/
posted on Sunday 18th June 2006.
It will be demoted in time so latecomers may need to seek it out.
the principles described can be identified in all modern forms of social control policy. Most interesting is the that author is, by political leaning, a socialist. But not a Marxist I guess.
It was there a fortnight ago yesterday when I shot through (at around 7am). Just as you come around the bend onto the dual carriageway - seems like it's a popular spot.
Fortunately for me, I was slowed behind another vehicle but had the road been clear then I'd probably have joined the customers that were pulled over having a chat.
Fortunately for me, I was slowed behind another vehicle but had the road been clear then I'd probably have joined the customers that were pulled over having a chat.
I know the stretch of road, and despite hating speed cams and laser, I think I understand the logic behind the speed enforcement here. The road is joined from under the bridge, drivers coming both ways are blind to each other until they are almost onto each other. At 70mph it has potential for incidents.
That said, it is long enough for those who do slow down in good time, it has enough distance to stretch the legs just a little
. Similar to the A406 that passes above it.
That said, it is long enough for those who do slow down in good time, it has enough distance to stretch the legs just a little
. Similar to the A406 that passes above it.turbobloke said:
7db said:
On the bright side for all you indignant types -- someone just got a FPN for 3ps and £60 up there for 70 in a 30...
Indignant? Incandescent...I'm not sure what sort of news it is for the incandescent types. I find them dangerous to hang around...
You have some lovely roads you way, TB, I was out playing on them this weekend.
7db said:
turbobloke said:
7db said:
On the bright side for all you indignant types -- someone just got a FPN for 3ps and £60 up there for 70 in a 30...
Indignant? Incandescent...I'm not sure what sort of news it is for the incandescent types. I find them dangerous to hang around...
I glow very gently. 7db said:
You have some lovely roads you way, TB, I was out playing on them this weekend.
True, but fewer than before due to reasons we both know.vonhosen said:
The history behind that particular stretch of road is that it used to be NSL (70mph limit), but unfortunately people didn't adjust that speed (or higher ones than that) as they entered the 30mph limit (where you probably saw the Police standing). With there being a busy slip road on & entrances to industrial estates at the location, there used to be a GATSO set at 60mph where the 30s started. It unfortunately used to run out of film quickly & of course the old "placing a camera after NSLs just inside the 30's is a revenue scam" used to get trotted out. The camera didn't stop the problem & lots of people used to just get points or disqualified. The short dual carriageway was then changed to a 30 just like the sections that immeadiately preceeded it & followed. It now gets periodically enforced by trafpol officers. Suppose if people can't adjust their speed sensibly by themselves, then limits will change to force that behavioural change.
Errr why didn't they make that bit of dual carriageway a 50 so the traffic slowed down gradually?
A sudden change from a 70 to a 30 is a bit sudden!
alphadog said:
A sudden change from a 70 to a 30 is a bit sudden!
You're not wrong alphadog but as everyone is looking ten miles ahead using x-ray vision to see through artics and round bends they'll anticipate the change, slow down early and be cut up be every other vehicle maintaining a reaosnable speed for the conditions. If the conditions aren't free flowing the sudden change probably won;t be so sudden. But more importantly for officialdom...
...drivers-are-unsafe-robots-with-no-sense-and-must-be-programmed-to-obey-daft-laws-instantly-or-they-will-be-exterminated-so-obey-obey
and that makes everything OK.
vonhosen said:
You wanted trafpol using their discretion instead of cameras. You got it & you still aren't happy, without having the full facts of who they decided to prosecute & why.
Prosecuting drivers for doing the usual tolerance above 30, on what used to be NSL, regardless of conditions, could hardly be considered 'using discretion'. This appears to me to be a ruse far worse than having a fixed camera just within a low speed limit zone.
Counter-intuitive speed limits seem to be cropping up more and more, and often implemented far away from the hazardous bit to provide a 'buffer zone'. The worst bit is the sneaky way these are implemented - a small article in the local rag and a few bits of tatty hardboard on road signs and lamp posts.
By the time you know about these changes it's too late - write and complain to the local authority and you get a response to the effect of 'we followed all procedures in implementing this limit' etc, etc.
They don't actually seem to drive down the road and see how impractical/stupid some of these schemes are!!
By the time you know about these changes it's too late - write and complain to the local authority and you get a response to the effect of 'we followed all procedures in implementing this limit' etc, etc.
They don't actually seem to drive down the road and see how impractical/stupid some of these schemes are!!
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