Parking ticket, thought I was in the clear........

[trimbo]

I've always believed that if you drove off before the warden could issue a ticket you were scott free. Had a chance to test the theory 5 weeks ago in London, was a great feeling to jump in the car and tear off down the road while the charming warden was tapping away furiously on his ticket machine.

Anyway, have just received a letter (NTO) about an unpaid ticket with a demand for £100. Although it was great fun to blast away from the warden, I'm not sure it was worth a ton.

Does anyone know the rules about being issued with a ticket?

thanks

[M7RT V]

www.parkingticket.co.uk/ / www.ticketbusters.co.uk/

Also this might be of interest....

Article stolen from times online... said:

www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,588-1044069_3,00.html

The quick getaway

Did the parking warden hand you the ticket or stick it to your car? If you drive away before he or she has a chance to do so, the ticket is invalid. Even if you receive a notice to owner through the post, the ticket is null and void.

Cliff Chamberlain, a pet shop owner from Eccles in Greater Manchester moved his delivery van from a single yellow line before the warden could finish issuing a ticket for his infraction. The enraged warden attached the completed ticket to a rabbit hutch Chamberlain had left behind on the pavement. Salford city council initially refused to cancel the ticket, but the fee was eventually waived before the case reached the adjudicators.

However, be aware that this is not always the case. On red routes and areas where parking is still controlled by the police and not decriminalised, tickets can be valid even if a motorist leaves the scene.

Edited by M7RT V on Friday 28th July 10:46

[mr_c]

write them a very polite letter saying that you've never recieved a ticket off them, and that if you had then you'd have paid it immediately before the price went up.

[mr_c]

Perhaps this should be in General Gassing or the Plod forums?

[Dwight Vandriver]

One should appreciate that Landan is a law unto itself.

Latest Red Ken wants pedal cycles to have number plates so that they can be fined for jumping lights and other traffic violations.

But going back to original poster - out in the sticks that applies in that attendant has to either hand driver the ticket of fix it to the vehicle for it to be valid service. As I said Landan is a law unto itself and Schedule 2 The Transport for London (Cosequentional Provisions) Order 2005 amends London Local Authorities Act 2000 allowing them to serve PCN on evidence of camera information or where a Parking Attendant is prevented from issuing a Notice.

Thar's been stung thar'll heftah pay.

dvd

dvd

[anonymous-user]

Dwight Vandriver said:

Latest Red Ken wants pedal cycles to have number plates so that they can be fined for jumping lights and other traffic violations.

only rear facing i hope. last week i took great pleasure in cycling at least 30 through the 20mph specs on lower thames st.

[blackvanman]

Hello everyone - 1st post and it's on my favourite subject - parking in London!

Do you have more details on this, DVD? I had a feeling the new 'PCN doesn't need to be served at the time' thing only applied to certain offences (e.g. red route etc) and 'normal' PCNs still have to be served normally (e.g. handed to driver or attached to vehicle) ?

trimbo, it might still be worth reading the parking enforcement protocol for the relevant authority as they may not have followed protocol, regardless of the 'drive-off' aspect. Westminster's is fascinating (relatively speaking) - www.westminster.gov.uk/transportandstreets/parking/enforcementprotocol.cfm

You have nothing to lose by appealing (I've won 5/5 so far) - confidence is low in the attendants, hence they now take photos to confirm PCN served. It's actually quite a good system, I got a ticket earlier in the week and you can view the images online! (appeal sent, naturally!)

Edited by blackvanman on Friday 28th July 16:45

[Vesuvius 996]

francisb said:

Dwight Vandriver said:

Latest Red Ken wants pedal cycles to have number plates so that they can be fined for jumping lights and other traffic violations.

only rear facing i hope. last week i took great pleasure in cycling at least 30 through the 20mph specs on lower thames st.

There's a speed limit. Just the type of self righteous bullshit I've come to expect from cyclists who think the law doesn't apply to them. Red lights, yellow boxes, riding on the pavement, no lights, no insurance, not stopping after collisions. The list goes on.

"Saving the planet, me..."


Cyclists should have compulsory insurance and have plates which identify them. And they should obey the law.

My girlfriend got flattened by one of you lot recently. If I find him he's fg dead.

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Friday 28th July 17:09

[Vesuvius 996]

[Parrot of Doom]

Vesuvius 996 said:

traditional anti-cyclist moan

Never exceeded the speed limit have we?

Oh and where would these plates go then? I can't think of anywhere tbh.

Edited by Parrot of Doom on Friday 28th July 22:42

[winnebago nut]

Parrot of Doom said:

Oh and where would these plates go then? I can't think of anywhere tbh.

Mounted from the seat maybe, on a mudguard, or on specially made framework at the back. I don't have a problem with cyclists, But i think it would be a good idea of having a way to being able to ID them. Atb Derek.

[Parrot of Doom]

Reg plates will never go on my cycle. If they want to do that, they can put plates on all road users - that includes pedestrians.

[winnebago nut]

Parrot of Doom said:

Reg plates will never go on my cycle. If they want to do that, they can put plates on all road users - that includes pedestrians.

They have to go on cars, whats different. Pedestrians most of the time are on pavements. Atb Derek.

[Dwight Vandriver]

Road Traffic Act 1991 at Section 66 (Parking Penalties in London) covers issue of PCN :
"
66.—(1) Where, in the case of a stationary vehicle in a designated parking place, a parking attendant has reason to believe that a penalty charge is payable with respect to the vehicle, he may—
(a) fix a penalty charge notice to the vehicle; or
(b) give such a notice to the person appearing to him to be in charge of the vehicle."


By not complying was held that Notice had not been served.

Designated Parking Places will be covered by LA taking out a Road Traffic (Permitted Parking Area and Special Parking Area) (Borough of ???) Order under RTA 1991

It would appear that by driving off before ticket could be handed to driver or placed on vehicle became endemic and to close the loophole they passed:

Transport for London (Consequentional Provisions) Order 2005 which at Schedule 2 states:

" (1) Where a parking attendant attempts to issue a penalty charge notice in accordance with section 66(1) of the Act of 1991[7] but is prevented from doing so by any person -

(a) Transport for London, if the attendant was acting on its behalf; or

(b) in any other case the council on whose behalf the attendant was acting,

may serve a penalty charge notice on the person appearing to it or them to be the owner of the vehicle."

dvd

[Fer]

Parrot of Doom said:

Oh and where would these plates go then? I can't think of anywhere tbh.

I am sure we can all think of somewhere Ken can stick them!

[e2djh]

Trimbo,
I had exactly the same happen to me in Paddington, but i had the added complexity of having good old verbal row with the warden. I had pulled over to check my directions and instructions, and got a gobby warden tell me to move it.

Anyway, aftera little sporting banter, i drove off on my way. Some considerable time later i received the £100 penalty notification - for not paying a ticket that i had not received.

As suggested above, i wrote and explained what happened, and that i had not been issued a ticket (not had it handed to me, or fixed to the car).

They wrote back telling me it had been handed to me, and that i was abusive and rude!

I wrote back again, insisting that i had not been given a tcket, and it was he who was rude. ( i can hear the yawns, so i'll get to the point).

Just keep writing, then they will offer you a court hearing. Couldn't go to that, so wrote again.

Got letter back saying that there were "discrepancies" in the warden's statement, so i was not guilty, nothing to pay.

Keep at them, and good luck

[blackvanman]

DVD,

Thanks for that. Sorry for flogging this but it does interest me.

It's still not clear whether driving off constitutes 'preventing' the attendant from issuing the notice. I think perhaps the amendment was more to cover attendants who are initimidated into not serving the PCN (I've seen it happen). City of London website might be out of date but they state that PCN must be served at the time, "However, if a parking attendant is physically prevented from serving the PCN by, for example, physical intimidation, then a PCN may be issued by post".

www.cityoflondon.gov.uk/Corporation/our_services/highways_transport/parking/disputing_PCN.htm

ben

[Dwight Vandriver]

Interesting Ben.

I suppose it will depend on what interpretation is placed on it by the LA.

To me it would seem to cover driving off as the conduct of the driver has prevented the issue of the ticket. But again what is the authority for a driver to remain so that the ticket can be issued. Probably would have to rely of case stated under RTA regarding the stop and production of driving Licence.

dvd

[tigger1]

Vesuvius 996 said:

francisb said:

Dwight Vandriver said:

Latest Red Ken wants pedal cycles to have number plates so that they can be fined for jumping lights and other traffic violations.

only rear facing i hope. last week i took great pleasure in cycling at least 30 through the 20mph specs on lower thames st.

There's a speed limit. Just the type of self righteous bullshit I've come to expect from cyclists who think the law doesn't apply to them.

<thread hi-jack alert>
...but the law on speeding doesn't...and that's just the type of self-righteous bullt that I'd expect from somebody who doesn't ride a bike.

Vesuvius - do you *ever* break speed limits? Even if you don't, many people do...they make a choice...as do cyclists. It's wrong, but it's tough. Get over it.

And if one takes your mirror off on Monday it's probably cos of you tarring all cyclists with the same brush - some of us do ride carefully and mainly stay the right side of the law!

[anonymous-user]

Vesuvius *they should obey the law* 996 said:

francisb said:

Dwight Vandriver said:

Latest Red Ken wants pedal cycles to have number plates so that they can be fined for jumping lights and other traffic violations.

only rear facing i hope. last week i took great pleasure in cycling at least 30 through the 20mph specs on lower thames st.

There's a speed limit. Just the type of self righteous bullshit I've come to expect from cyclists who think the law doesn't apply to them. Red lights, yellow boxes, riding on the pavement, no lights, no insurance, not stopping after collisions. The list goes on.

"Saving the planet, me..."


Cyclists should have compulsory insurance and have plates which identify them. And they should obey the law.

My girlfriend got flattened by one of you lot recently. If I find him he's fg dead.

Edited by Vesuvius 996 on Friday 28th July 17:09

WTF? self righteous. thats a good one. where the hell did you get that from? you'll be less likely to get hit by a cyclist if you took your head out your arse.

and for the record ive only every cycled once in london. it was good fun. certainly alot faster than car or motorbike

Edited by francisb on Sunday 30th July 22:33