Another death on the M4 today.

[deeps]

Tragically another death this morning. The driver of a BMW died when a scaffolding lorry lost control and jumped over the central barrier into oncoming traffic. The motorway was closed in both directions for at least five hours.

Coincidentally, on Aug 12th last year two people in a BMW were killed at the same spot, jnct 18 near Bath.

Without wishing to sound callous, I don't think these deaths are included in the Wiltshire SCP's figures for M4 fatalities, as their area starts a couple of miles farther East along the M4. So I guess they'll be telling us again soon of their great success in reducing fatalities. Never mind what's happened two miles away.

[WildCat]

deeps said:

Tragically another death this morning. The driver of a BMW died when a scaffolding lorry lost control and jumped over the central barrier into oncoming traffic. The motorway was closed in both directions for at least five hours.

Coincidentally, on Aug 12th last year two people in a BMW were killed at the same spot, jnct 18 near Bath.

Without wishing to sound callous, I don't think these deaths are included in the Wiltshire SCP's figures for M4 fatalities, as their area starts a couple of miles farther East along the M4. So I guess they'll be telling us again soon of their great success in reducing fatalities. Never mind what's happened two miles away.

But would these not be in the neighbouring pratship's figures, Liebchen? Avon & Somerset?

I suspect a badly maintained vehicle. Similar to how member of my family died und how Mary W's Mama died (Brake was initially about campaigning to get these low lifes to maintain their vehicles properly und about getting garages to repair properly with properly trained mechanics - und our family still support them in this area of their work und will say they moved mountains to improve things. Ist what they did und still do BEST! We also support their stance on drink/drugs/attention to prescription drugs/fatigue 100% too - where we at loggerheads ist over the speed cam issues I would say many of their views - worthwhile und normal - what we all want. Speed issue ist different as we have so many limits und downgraded limits ... und the true way to road safety ist to insist on the COAST principles und we (Mad Doc und self) cannot be wrong since we have tangible proof as to the existence of COAST as an assessment via DIS und the prat's (Lancs/Staffs Speed Aware Courses)

Did the other incident involve loss of control? If so - und if the lorry had no defect - then perhaps the powers that be need to look at the design und engineering of this area und the qulaity of the road surface

Und so as not to appear callous - condolences to all concerned in this incident. Hurt never goes away - but the white heat raging does subside. For longest time though.. there are embers which will rage up again. Und then it subsides to dormant volcano state.. but it can erupt with force when a similat thing happen. I think this ist more a problem for the Brake/Roadpeace crowd than my own family who will just look to each other for supports in truest feline fashion.

[JoolzB]

deeps said:

Without wishing to sound callous, I don't think these deaths are included in the Wiltshire SCP's figures for M4 fatalities, as their area starts a couple of miles farther East along the M4. So I guess they'll be telling us again soon of their great success in reducing fatalities. Never mind what's happened two miles away.

Surely this has nothing to do with what SCPs should be showing in their stats anyway, they may use the accident to justify a new Shatso but from what you say it's not speed related, just a horrible freak accident?

[J500ANT]

WildCat said:

I suspect a badly maintained vehicle.

The local tv crew reported from the scene, stood next to the lorry in its post crash position. Those tyres didnt look too healthy to me. Time will of course tell.

[deeps]

WildCat said:

But would these not be in the neighbouring pratship's figures, Liebchen? Avon & Somerset?

Close . It used to be covered by Avon, Somerset & Gloucestershire, but the latter formed their own partnership just over a year ago. So the fatalities will be in Glos' partnerships figures.

The point is though, the Wiltshire SCP are the ones who operate from the M4 bridges (Glos don't) and this prompted the M4 protest remember?

Now they are seen on the local news occasionally telling us all how they have reduced accidents on the M4. The fact is though, through positional coincidences such as todays, they can report success, when in reality they cause danger and panic braking every time they scam from a bridge. It pains me to see them doing this! The figures will average out over time, but in the mean time they are allowed to continue causing an unnecessary danger.

[deeps]

JoolzB said:

Surely this has nothing to do with what SCPs should be showing in their stats anyway, they may use the accident to justify a new Shatso but from what you say it's not speed related, just a horrible freak accident?

The original justification for allowing scamming on this road was because of a high number of fatalities. One of these being a suicidal bridge jumper, another being a drive by an elderly chap heading West on the East bound carriageway!

[CatherineJ]

I think the accident was also just outside of the Wilts SCP so no it wont be included

[JoolzB]

deeps said:

JoolzB said:

Surely this has nothing to do with what SCPs should be showing in their stats anyway, they may use the accident to justify a new Shatso but from what you say it's not speed related, just a horrible freak accident?

The original justification for allowing scamming on this road was because of a high number of fatalities. One of these being a suicidal bridge jumper, another being a drive by an elderly chap heading West on the East bound carriageway!

Well that sounds reasonable then,

What's frightening is that we're almost looking for higher fatality figures to show that scams aren't working. I'm sure eventually it'll dawn on somebody that they're not working and we may get see some real improvements made. Got no idea what caused this accident and how easy it would have been to avoid but it doesn't sound speed related from the current info posted.

[J500ANT]

It was in South Gloucestershire so will be under the juristiction of the Avon & Somerset Safety Camera Pratnership.

[deeps]

J500ANT said:

It was in South Gloucestershire so will be under the juristiction of the Avon & Somerset Safety Camera Pratnership.

They have their own partnership now.

[off_again]

Wife and kids caught in this today. Decided to go shopping at Cribbs near Bristol - sat in traffic for a good three hours before having the chance to turn around and come back. Did anyone see the local news for the West? A bit shocking. Seems that a scafolding truck hit a Silver Ford Ka and then crossed carriageways - hitting a number of cars coming the other way, killing a driver of a black BMW.

What disturbs me is that this is my biggest fear - being hit head on by someone that you cannot do anything about. Shocking....

I have no idea as to the run up to this though. It was between 7-8 on the M4 on a Monday morning. The chances of getting up to illegal speeds are pretty low, but its still a possibility. Then again, the recent death (about a month or so ago on the M4 near J17) involved a scafold truck but the driver suffered a heart attack and crashed into a bridge support. What is to say that this is not the case this time? Who knows....

Anyone know better - silverbackmike? Is this your patch? Or is it best to keep schtum pending public announcements?

[J500ANT]

deeps said:

J500ANT said:

It was in South Gloucestershire so will be under the juristiction of the Avon & Somerset Safety Camera Pratnership.

They have their own partnership now.

if you look at www.safecam.org.uk you will see that South Gloucestershire is covered by A&Scam. The Gloucestershire Scam is in Gloucestershire proper.

[supermono]

Perhaps if the BMW was speeding they'll be able to truthfully include it as "an accident involving speeding".

SM

[jasandjules]

supermono said:

Perhaps if the BMW was speeding they'll be able to truthfully include it as "an accident involving speeding".

SM

Do you know, sadly my mind worked the same there.. Or failing that, the truck was speeding....

[pdV6]

News report here: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/england/br

It says that the scaff lorry hit a car and the car crossed the barrier into the oncoming carriageway.

No details about exactly where it ocurred, but it would be telling if it was anywhere near the stupid "4 down to 3" lane reduction near Bath...

[GKP]

Is it time to rethink the design of the central barriers?

[supermono]

I just hope the chap in the BMW wasn't looking at his speedometer when the car came over. After all it's prime scamera territory so one is obliged to waste valuable observation time on what number is showing on the speedo rather than, say, looking out for cars coming over the barrier.

SM

[Mr Whippy]

Or make all trucks using motorways capable of 55mph safely, and then ban overtaking by them.

I bet 10p that the truck was manoeuvring after pulling out or back in after an overtake when it hit a car and then lost control!

Dave

[MartinD]

GKP said:

Is it time to rethink the design of the central barriers?

I've thought that for a long time, why not have the concrete ones like on the M25, there would be no 'crossing over' then.

[MartinD]

Mr Whippy said:

Or make all trucks using motorways capable of 55mph safely, and then ban overtaking by them.
.............

I think you will find that the scaffold lorry would be a 7.5 ton'er, most are, in which case the limit is 70mph on motorways & they can use lane 3, which if anything makes them more dangerous.

Edited by MartinD on Tuesday 15th August 14:25