Another day, another lorry trying to kill me
Discussion
M11/M25 sliproad this morning. Long sweeping right going into a left. Minding my own business in the RH lane approaching two trucks. As per usual, truck behind flicked on the "I'm coming out ready or not" signal and moved into my path causing me to brake hard to avoid being killed. A similar thing happens almost every time I'm on the motorway so I'm usually prepared to make the necessary allowances for these bozos, but with the amount of motorway miles I do I'm beginning to think an imbecile in a truck is top of the list of things likely to end my life early.
What to do though? As professional drivers in charge of such dangerous vehicles, are they made to sit tests every few years? I guess not judging by the way that every motorway pile up bar none has at least one or two trucks involved.
SM
What to do though? As professional drivers in charge of such dangerous vehicles, are they made to sit tests every few years? I guess not judging by the way that every motorway pile up bar none has at least one or two trucks involved.
SM
Look at their body language & what they are approaching. There are very few (if you are reading it all right) who's movement you can't anticipate. Modulate your approach differential relative to your view/anticipation of what could make them change position & the likelyhood that they will.
This is good advice, and it's exactly what I do, I did the same thing this morning as I do every time I take to the road. Otherwise they'll kill me!
My beef is that these bozos happily endanger my life by expecting me to give way to them when they are changing lane. I don't move into the path of approaching traffic so why should they?
SM
My beef is that these bozos happily endanger my life by expecting me to give way to them when they are changing lane. I don't move into the path of approaching traffic so why should they?
SM
supermono said:
I don't move into the path of approaching traffic so why should they?
My guess is because they are bigger than you, and know you will brake... At least, that is how it seems to me when these guys pull out. More recently I have noticed a lot of international drivers stopped at the wrong point, and the other day one decided to turn round on a mini-roundabout in a village.. Strangely, after half a dozen attempts, he decided his 30ft long truck wouldn't make the turn....
supermono said:
M11/M25 sliproad this morning. Long sweeping right going into a left. Minding my own business in the RH lane approaching two trucks.
This happened to me on a dual carriageway the other day. I realised the trucks where close, but didn't want the back one to pull out in front of me as on 2 lane roads they kick up all the crap from the central reservation and sandblast the front of the car. It's almost as if he waited and then pulled out at the last possible microsecond. I've no idea how we didn't crash.
Watch out for foreign trucks too by checking the registration plate...LHD rigs have a blind spot when overtaking and can`t check their blind spot......I never like to hang about along side when overtaking...sends a shiver up the spine sometimes...Sometimes it pays to gas it...
Edited by F.M on Tuesday 29th August 09:39
F.M said:
I never like to hang about along side when overtaking...sends a shiver up the spine sometimes...Sometimes it pays to gas it...
That should be standard practice, to be honest. Never sit next to an HGV, hang back until you can get clearly past, and if the traffic is bunching and he undertakes, then drop back again.
Part of the problem I suspect is that if they just sit in their lane with their indicator on no car driver will let them out, and if they have to slow then it will take them an additional week to pass whatever they are pulling out to pass.
So at the end of the day they find it quicker and easier to indicate and go, and let the cars sort themsleves out! As a car driver this can be dealt with my reducing speed when approaching a convoy of trucks so that if the rear one does pull out you have more ability to slow. Also if car drivers were actually courteous to trucks letting the out whenever possible, after all it takes a car driver next to no time to get back to cruising speed once the truck is out of the way, then maybe they would stop leaping out!
So at the end of the day they find it quicker and easier to indicate and go, and let the cars sort themsleves out! As a car driver this can be dealt with my reducing speed when approaching a convoy of trucks so that if the rear one does pull out you have more ability to slow. Also if car drivers were actually courteous to trucks letting the out whenever possible, after all it takes a car driver next to no time to get back to cruising speed once the truck is out of the way, then maybe they would stop leaping out!
chrisgr31 said:
Also if car drivers were actually courteous to trucks letting the out whenever possible, after all it takes a car driver next to no time to get back to cruising speed once the truck is out of the way, then maybe they would stop leaping out!
That'd be after the 15 minutes you've been behind it while it overtook the next truck at .00025mph?
The flip side to that is though most car drivers don't want to let them out because of the ridiculous overtaking system for trucks where they go 1mph faster and sometimes slower than the other truck they try to overtake and hence cause delays.
We all know the scenario, a hill approaches, lorry B pulls out on a dual carrageway to overtake Lorry A. He sits there for miles not gaining and then in fact starts to fall back so the other 489 road users begind have to slow down and queue for lorry B to fall back into the inside lane.
..and people wonder why all these traffic jams with seemingly no cause come from...
I don't imagine its an easy life for lorry drivers but I really do think they should be banned from driving in outer lanes unless absolutely neccessary, to overtake a tractor for example. Difficult to enforce I know and doubtless all the government will do is install another 20,000 speed cameras.
We all know the scenario, a hill approaches, lorry B pulls out on a dual carrageway to overtake Lorry A. He sits there for miles not gaining and then in fact starts to fall back so the other 489 road users begind have to slow down and queue for lorry B to fall back into the inside lane.
..and people wonder why all these traffic jams with seemingly no cause come from...
I don't imagine its an easy life for lorry drivers but I really do think they should be banned from driving in outer lanes unless absolutely neccessary, to overtake a tractor for example. Difficult to enforce I know and doubtless all the government will do is install another 20,000 speed cameras.
A few tricks :
Watch the distance of the back of the truck to the truck in front. A truck that is starting a overtake closes this up, and moves gently to the right. Given practice, you can spot this. Similar to the checking mirrors wobble cars do.
When approaching trucks in the middle lane in traffic, keep an escape route open to your right for you to move into.
If you have the space, move out into the outside lane keeping a 1 lane buffer between you and the trucks.
I haven't had to brake for a truck for *months*
Watch the distance of the back of the truck to the truck in front. A truck that is starting a overtake closes this up, and moves gently to the right. Given practice, you can spot this. Similar to the checking mirrors wobble cars do.
When approaching trucks in the middle lane in traffic, keep an escape route open to your right for you to move into.
If you have the space, move out into the outside lane keeping a 1 lane buffer between you and the trucks.
I haven't had to brake for a truck for *months*
ohopkins said:
A few tricks :
Watch the distance of the back of the truck to the truck in front. A truck that is starting a overtake closes this up, and moves gently to the right. Given practice, you can spot this. Similar to the checking mirrors wobble cars do.
When approaching trucks in the middle lane in traffic, keep an escape route open to your right for you to move into.
If you have the space, move out into the outside lane keeping a 1 lane buffer between you and the trucks.
I haven't had to brake for a truck for *months*
Watch the distance of the back of the truck to the truck in front. A truck that is starting a overtake closes this up, and moves gently to the right. Given practice, you can spot this. Similar to the checking mirrors wobble cars do.
When approaching trucks in the middle lane in traffic, keep an escape route open to your right for you to move into.
If you have the space, move out into the outside lane keeping a 1 lane buffer between you and the trucks.
I haven't had to brake for a truck for *months*
Thanks, I already do this and I too haven't needed to brake for a while, but this morning was an exception because he was even more dangerous than usual and kind of swerved out. My point is why on earth do we continually have to make allowances for this dangerous behaviour?
SM
Any moment now heebeeggeettebe will be along to admonish you for foolishly being in his blind spot 
Seriously though, it has got to the stage where you need to develop your powers of perception to allow for these people, they will assume there is no car because they can't see one so you need to be very careful. Also be aware of foriegn cabs as the 'blind spot' will be on the right making this more of a problem.
As VH says you can anticipate it,
1. if you can see the gap closing,
2. if you are on a sweeping left hander don't risk it
3. if you can see it's a foreign cab and you're on a sweeping right hander don't bother
4. if you can see the driver past all his toys in the window
Seriously though, it has got to the stage where you need to develop your powers of perception to allow for these people, they will assume there is no car because they can't see one so you need to be very careful. Also be aware of foriegn cabs as the 'blind spot' will be on the right making this more of a problem.
As VH says you can anticipate it,
1. if you can see the gap closing,
2. if you are on a sweeping left hander don't risk it
3. if you can see it's a foreign cab and you're on a sweeping right hander don't bother
4. if you can see the driver past all his toys in the window
I have to say I've noticed a large increase in foreign trucks on our roads...and on average they have far worse roadcraft than UK trucks (some of whom are, as the OP said, quite happy to try and kill you).
Solution: Loads more VOSA/HATO partnership cars/vans on the roads. Pull 'em over, and if they're not road-legal stop 'em from driving any further. Won't help with the road-legal numpties but it's a start.
Solution: Loads more VOSA/HATO partnership cars/vans on the roads. Pull 'em over, and if they're not road-legal stop 'em from driving any further. Won't help with the road-legal numpties but it's a start.
John Lyon, who iirc is qualified to drive and instruct on everything in the universe, once described his discussion with a group of truckers on just this matter, in which he was giving guidance on attitude as well as driving technicalities. Response as intoned by John was "nah, yer gotta give cars the fackin chop or you'll be there all fackin day". Nicely put.
supermono said:
A similar thing happens almost every time ... so I'm usually prepared to make the necessary allowances for these bozos ...
Yes, that's what bikers think about car drivers
Them cars are large, slow things that like to pull out in front of you as often as possible 
Frankly, I don't understand why cars are even allowed to use the outside lane 
In all seriousness, have you ever been in a truck on the motorway? You have massive blind spots and no chance over overtaking without being aggressive. Added to tiredness from long driving stints, possibly driving on the wrong side of the road, and maybe having a bad day or being late, then you've gotta make allowances for truckers. After all, bikers make allowances for all you car drivers every day.
Incidentally, John Lyon does hold a truck licence. When I last saw him, he talked about giving up driver training for truck driving! Though I guess he's still teaching performance driving in his own inimitable way.
chrisgr31 said:
Part of the problem I suspect is that if they just sit in their lane with their indicator on no car driver will let them out, and if they have to slow then it will take them an additional week to pass whatever they are pulling out to pass.
So at the end of the day they find it quicker and easier to indicate and go, and let the cars sort themsleves out! As a car driver this can be dealt with my reducing speed when approaching a convoy of trucks so that if the rear one does pull out you have more ability to slow. Also if car drivers were actually courteous to trucks letting the out whenever possible, after all it takes a car driver next to no time to get back to cruising speed once the truck is out of the way, then maybe they would stop leaping out!
So at the end of the day they find it quicker and easier to indicate and go, and let the cars sort themsleves out! As a car driver this can be dealt with my reducing speed when approaching a convoy of trucks so that if the rear one does pull out you have more ability to slow. Also if car drivers were actually courteous to trucks letting the out whenever possible, after all it takes a car driver next to no time to get back to cruising speed once the truck is out of the way, then maybe they would stop leaping out!
Quite agree Chris, I never seem to get cut up by trucks. I do mega motorway miles and always see the potential ahead, usually giving them a quick flash to let them know that I know they want to move out, and they usually respond with a wave as I pass.
Had a strange experience today though. A truck in lane 2 of the M5 started his hazard lights flashing and braked fairly gently before coming to a complete halt in lane 2. I was a few cars back, but wisely all 3 lanes came to a halt level with the truck. Then he jumps out the cab, picks some piece of debris up and throws it over the hard shoulder, jumps back in and off we all go. Who needs HATO's! Could have been dodgy though if the leading cars hadn't stopped with him, probably highly illegal too.
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