No more overtaking!!
Discussion
Had two friends recently been hammered with some common sense and a scamera.
1st one, friend in a new Cooper S. Caught up with a cyclist in town, who was going slightly slower than the traffic. Nothing coming the other way, so he pulls out and a quick blast of acceleration to be in and out as quick as possible, then pulls back in planning on decelerating immediately. But then only just noticed that plod was stepping out with hair dryer in hand... zap. Fined and some points.
Second one, approaching the end of a crawler lane on the A9. A caraven is just ahead. Mate driving a slow accelerating 4x4, and anyone thats driven up the A9 will know how difficult it can be overtaking sometimes. (so you make best use of the dual carraigeway and crawler lane sections). So mate accelerates up to 80 (in 60 zone), catches and passes caravan and pulls in safely. Not slowly enough for the camera van sat on the exit of the immediately following bend though. Well placed because they'd know people do exactly that.
A bit unfair, and just encouraging frustration. So your choice, either overtake but don't exceed 60mph, or just stay behind them and get frustrated that your 6 hour journey has just become some what longer while they saunter along at 40/50mph.
1st one, friend in a new Cooper S. Caught up with a cyclist in town, who was going slightly slower than the traffic. Nothing coming the other way, so he pulls out and a quick blast of acceleration to be in and out as quick as possible, then pulls back in planning on decelerating immediately. But then only just noticed that plod was stepping out with hair dryer in hand... zap. Fined and some points.
Second one, approaching the end of a crawler lane on the A9. A caraven is just ahead. Mate driving a slow accelerating 4x4, and anyone thats driven up the A9 will know how difficult it can be overtaking sometimes. (so you make best use of the dual carraigeway and crawler lane sections). So mate accelerates up to 80 (in 60 zone), catches and passes caravan and pulls in safely. Not slowly enough for the camera van sat on the exit of the immediately following bend though. Well placed because they'd know people do exactly that.
A bit unfair, and just encouraging frustration. So your choice, either overtake but don't exceed 60mph, or just stay behind them and get frustrated that your 6 hour journey has just become some what longer while they saunter along at 40/50mph.
vonhosen said:
cj_eds said:
So your choice, either overtake but don't exceed 60mph, or just stay behind them.
Yep, where the limit is 60 of course.
I think you'll find the most salient part of that post was...
cj_eds said:
and get frustrated that your 6 hour journey has just become some what longer while they saunter along at 40/50mph.
You obtuse and irritating litle man.
Einion Yrth said:
You obtuse and irritating litle man.
As I said, I was merely playing devil's advocate. If you feel the need to resort to abuse then please find somewhere else to vent your frustration.
The point I was trying to make is that frustration further up the road doesn't justify the taking of risks at any point. I do acknowledge that I don't know this particular piece of road however.
Edited by PetrolTed on Tuesday 5th September 07:23
PetrolTed said:
Einion Yrth said:
You obtuse and irritating litle man.
As I said, I was merely playing devil's advocate. If you feel the need to resort to abuse then please find somewhere else to vent your frustration.
I wasn't replying to you but to a deliberatly curtailed quotation by vonhosen - if you feel that I took it too far then I apologise, but I do find his 'holier than thou' attitude rather wearing from time to time.
If the highway robbers were run by intelligent folk this wouldn't happen, and if they were audited properly by somebody like Paul Smith, this wouldn't happen.
It is inconceivable that setting up right at the end of a dual carriageway will cause anything other than increased danger. Typically you'll get people speeding past the slow moving traffic at the end of the D/C as described, people halfway past, braking at a point where people are perhaps too closely spaced because they want to make the most of the diminishing overtaking opportunity and of course postponed overtakes to more dangerous locations when the road is single carriageway.
No matter what your view might be of speeding, setting up in these places will cause accidents that wouldn't otherwise happen. But it will rake in maximum profit.
If we must have this cancer on our roads, please let somebody with sense police it.
SM
It is inconceivable that setting up right at the end of a dual carriageway will cause anything other than increased danger. Typically you'll get people speeding past the slow moving traffic at the end of the D/C as described, people halfway past, braking at a point where people are perhaps too closely spaced because they want to make the most of the diminishing overtaking opportunity and of course postponed overtakes to more dangerous locations when the road is single carriageway.
No matter what your view might be of speeding, setting up in these places will cause accidents that wouldn't otherwise happen. But it will rake in maximum profit.
If we must have this cancer on our roads, please let somebody with sense police it.
SM
Human nature being what it is, they know we will overtake the slow pokes doing 40 in the 60, and of course, being as it is safer to crawl past them and hope an oncoming vehicle doesn't hit you head on, they object to you braking the 60mph limit. Clearly it is dangerous to drive at 70mph in a 60 limit and reduce the time you are on the other side of the road and thus negate the chances of a head on...
Or is it all about money, and not safety?? Hmmm, I wonder...
Or is it all about money, and not safety?? Hmmm, I wonder...
vonhosen said:
cj_eds said:
So your choice, either overtake but don't exceed 60mph, or just stay behind them.
Yep, where the limit is 60 of course.
Now I contend that by NOT exceeding the limit the driver is guilty of DWDC&A or even DD as the crash could easily have been avoided by a competent driver simply by using more power. Discuss.
A few years back on an observed advanced driving lesson the observer told me you are allowed to break the speed limit to over take as long as you then slow down to within the limit after you have completed the move. I questioned this after the lesson & he was certain thats allowed.
A copper mate of mine however disagreed, if the limit is exceeded regardless of what you are doing an offence has been committed.
so who is right?
Just don't speed where you can't be sure Plod may not be waiting with their radar gun.
Kinda ties in with "limit point" driving. Where you can't see to be clear don't speed.
A shame because it impacts making genuine safe progress, especially when your 3 cars down on a slow vehicle procession and can get past more safely using speed, but hey ho, thats the nutty world in which we live now. We'll change that by action off the roads, not on it.
Dave
Kinda ties in with "limit point" driving. Where you can't see to be clear don't speed.
A shame because it impacts making genuine safe progress, especially when your 3 cars down on a slow vehicle procession and can get past more safely using speed, but hey ho, thats the nutty world in which we live now. We'll change that by action off the roads, not on it.
Dave
I often use the A60 / A614 and the A52, all of which are mainly SC 60mph (well, 50mph now..but that's another discussion!). I'll often make best use (IMO) of any available overtaking opportunities, and yes, this may mean that sometimes I exceed the limit. The alternative is to sit and wait, get frustrated and eventually go for a pass that just isn't "on".
"Massive changes in velocity caused by impact KILLS" - just doesn't have the same ring to it.
"Massive changes in velocity caused by impact KILLS" - just doesn't have the same ring to it.
Honestly, so much fecking whining about getting caught by a speed camera.
If you're driving up a road where they are known to often be present, either don't speed or accept the risk.
If you want to overtake, accept the risk that if you can't see the road ahead well enough to be sure there are no cameras then you might get caught.
Everyone blasts past at full throttle when overtaking, because having 3 points is less important than having a head on. But nowadays you might get caught by some idiot in a cameravan.
That's life. It sucks. But there are worse things to worry about.
If you're driving up a road where they are known to often be present, either don't speed or accept the risk.
If you want to overtake, accept the risk that if you can't see the road ahead well enough to be sure there are no cameras then you might get caught.
Everyone blasts past at full throttle when overtaking, because having 3 points is less important than having a head on. But nowadays you might get caught by some idiot in a cameravan.
That's life. It sucks. But there are worse things to worry about.
Strikes me that these were two examples of poor driving - for instance even I know the A9 is a scamera blackspot, and it is also pretty easy to plan overtaking manoeuvres. Let's face it, a bike and a caravan are hardly going to be fast moving, so a little bit of forethought into overtaking isn't that tricky, and in a slow accelerating vehicle, planning is the only way overtaking can be accomplished. As also pointed out, overtaking where two lanes reduce to one in a slowish, heavy 4x4 isn't exactly genius level thinking, is it?
BliarOut said:
vonhosen said:
Yep, where the limit is 60 of course.
Now I contend that by NOT exceeding the limit the driver is guilty of DWDC&A or even DD as the crash could easily have been avoided by a competent driver simply by using more power. Discuss.
Dont be stupid BliarOut, surely if nothing else VH has taught you with his postings that that doesn't happen, nobody else will ever pull into spaces behind or beside you or speed up leaving you with no other option, it's your fault for not assessing the situation and not being able to read the mind of every other road user. If you get into such a situation due to others you can have a serious crash but you MUST NOT break that arbitrary speed limit, no matter how safe it is to do so in the circumstances.
splodge s4 said:
it was nice to see a road sign saying 'frustration causes accidents, please allow overtaking'...
That's a good idea, people down here seem to have forgotten their driving manners. I use the predominently single-carriageway A65 quite a lot, and not only do people NEVER pull in (or over) to let people past, they almost always put their foot down to stop you going round. F
ers. Whilst I've never tested it, and hopefully never will, I'd speculate that most Trafpol wouldn't bust you for 70mph in a 60mph if you were simply hopping round someone and were doing so safely. Conversely, I've no doubt whatsoever that a Tallivan would do you for it.
The A9 is indeed a frustrating road. If you want to get past slow traffic it generally is only on the short DC sections that you can do this safely.
therefore drivers tend to get past as much of the slow stuff as possible on these sections.
This is not a short road and the added time to a journey can be significant if you are stuck behind slow traffic.
The DC sections can easily support safe progress at higher speeds and most of the SC can too if conditions are fine.
It is worrying that in Scotland I have noticed that more and more trafpol are being deployed in static locations with speed guns, no high-vis vests, car tucked behind something and at locations where it is likely that people will look to overtake slower traffic as it is a rare good long straight section of road.
therefore drivers tend to get past as much of the slow stuff as possible on these sections.
This is not a short road and the added time to a journey can be significant if you are stuck behind slow traffic.
The DC sections can easily support safe progress at higher speeds and most of the SC can too if conditions are fine.
It is worrying that in Scotland I have noticed that more and more trafpol are being deployed in static locations with speed guns, no high-vis vests, car tucked behind something and at locations where it is likely that people will look to overtake slower traffic as it is a rare good long straight section of road.
The problem is further impounded by the stupid 40mph truck limit, when they get to the short DC sections they nail it up to their 56mph limit, meaning that planned overtake is'nt quite what you thought.
Stupid dumm ass law that does'nt allow safe overtaking, compounds the frustration of a nation of wholly "untrained to overtake drivers".
Road safety my ass
Stupid dumm ass law that does'nt allow safe overtaking, compounds the frustration of a nation of wholly "untrained to overtake drivers".
Road safety my ass
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