Bit nervous after red light camera incident
Discussion
Friday, and I was getting a little rattled at the woman in front who braked for the gentlest of bends, didn't keep a constant speed, and was driving 5mph bellow the limit - which was already 40MPH on what was until recently a NSL open piece of country road.
OK I'll tollerate her knowing a junction was coming up.
Junction is a non-typical narrowish cross junction (left,right,straight on) walled on all sides so you can't see, completely covered in red light cameras.
Woman goes through on green, and I follow her through also on green. She slams on, and then indicates right so I'm stuck behind her, wanting to turn left.
Lights now go to red and I'm left high and dry but with a clear passage to the left so continue on.
Is that a bad thing. Not normally, but wan't looking at the camera and don't relly know what they are supposed to do in these circumstances.
Had another ride through the junction later and there appears to be 2 pads in the road just after the actual lights, but perhaps another larger pad where I was waiting.
Any ideas chaps?
OK I'll tollerate her knowing a junction was coming up.
Junction is a non-typical narrowish cross junction (left,right,straight on) walled on all sides so you can't see, completely covered in red light cameras.
Woman goes through on green, and I follow her through also on green. She slams on, and then indicates right so I'm stuck behind her, wanting to turn left.
Lights now go to red and I'm left high and dry but with a clear passage to the left so continue on.
Is that a bad thing. Not normally, but wan't looking at the camera and don't relly know what they are supposed to do in these circumstances.
Had another ride through the junction later and there appears to be 2 pads in the road just after the actual lights, but perhaps another larger pad where I was waiting.
Any ideas chaps?
Subject to confirmation, but I believe the camera's are activated 2 seconds or so after the start of the red phase. The sensors are in the road and are a couple of foot apart across the lane just beyond the white stop line Had you already passed over these before being marooned behind the crappy driver?
It is a pain having to accomodate the camera in addition to a bad driver!
edited to add - Is the flash present in the camera box? If both windows in the camera box are black then it has no innards and hence you are definitely safe. Same applies to Gatsos and Truvelos, though the latter is a tad more difficult to spot!
It is a pain having to accomodate the camera in addition to a bad driver!
edited to add - Is the flash present in the camera box? If both windows in the camera box are black then it has no innards and hence you are definitely safe. Same applies to Gatsos and Truvelos, though the latter is a tad more difficult to spot!
Edited by alphadog on Monday 11th September 10:34
alphadog said:
Subject to confirmation, but I believe the camera's are activated 2 seconds or so after the start of the red phase. The sensors are in the road and are a couple of foot apart across the lane just beyond the white stop line Had you already passed over these before being marooned behind the crappy driver?
It is a pain having to accomodate the camera in addition to a bad driver!
edited to add - Is the flash present in the camera box? If both windows in the camera box are black then it has no innards and hence you are definitely safe. Same applies to Gatsos and Truvelos, though the latter is a tad more difficult to spot!
It is a pain having to accomodate the camera in addition to a bad driver!
edited to add - Is the flash present in the camera box? If both windows in the camera box are black then it has no innards and hence you are definitely safe. Same applies to Gatsos and Truvelos, though the latter is a tad more difficult to spot!
Confirmation:
They are programmable. They can be programmed to activate as soon as the light changes to red, or 1 or 2 or however many seconds after that you want.
They can work on road sensors or on microwave detectors. If the latter, then no markings in road.
If microwave, then it depends how they are tuned and aimed - they probably detect traffic crossing the stop line but not in the middle of the junction. A lot are aimed at the stop line so that they don't pick up traffic crossing from the side roads. If so then you're safe.
They will (probably) have an allowance to let right-turners clear after the red, if so then you'll be ok.
SO after all that, I suspect you're probably ok - but you'll just have to wait and see!
tvrgit said:
alphadog said:
Subject to confirmation, but I believe the camera's are activated 2 seconds or so after the start of the red phase. The sensors are in the road and are a couple of foot apart across the lane just beyond the white stop line Had you already passed over these before being marooned behind the crappy driver?
It is a pain having to accomodate the camera in addition to a bad driver!
edited to add - Is the flash present in the camera box? If both windows in the camera box are black then it has no innards and hence you are definitely safe. Same applies to Gatsos and Truvelos, though the latter is a tad more difficult to spot!
It is a pain having to accomodate the camera in addition to a bad driver!
edited to add - Is the flash present in the camera box? If both windows in the camera box are black then it has no innards and hence you are definitely safe. Same applies to Gatsos and Truvelos, though the latter is a tad more difficult to spot!
Confirmation:
They are programmable. They can be programmed to activate as soon as the light changes to red, or 1 or 2 or however many seconds after that you want.
They can work on road sensors or on microwave detectors. If the latter, then no markings in road.
If microwave, then it depends how they are tuned and aimed - they probably detect traffic crossing the stop line but not in the middle of the junction. A lot are aimed at the stop line so that they don't pick up traffic crossing from the side roads. If so then you're safe.
They will (probably) have an allowance to let right-turners clear after the red, if so then you'll be ok.
SO after all that, I suspect you're probably ok - but you'll just have to wait and see!
All correct.
However, the main factor is that if you have passed the stop line when the light was on green, then you have not committed an offence no matter how long it takes to leave the junction. (Unless it is boxed of course....)
I know this as a very similar situation happened to me. On this occasion however this factor was not taken into account by the three police officers who after I rejected their 'kind offer' of only being punished by £60 and 3 points and despite my protestations they decided that they would rather be made to look silly in court. Which they did. Dspite the fact that they had realised their error before court, to save face they collaborated statements which said that I jumped the light 6 seconds after it was red and how cars had to swerve to avoid my dangerous driving. Luckily the truth came out in court.
justinp1 said:
to save face they collaborated statements which said that I jumped the light 6 seconds after it was red and how cars had to swerve to avoid my dangerous driving. Luckily the truth came out in court.
Not that it will ever happen to me, but 'just in case' could you explain how you managed to overcome the combined evidence of three policemen testifying against you?
GreenV8S said:
justinp1 said:
to save face they collaborated statements which said that I jumped the light 6 seconds after it was red and how cars had to swerve to avoid my dangerous driving. Luckily the truth came out in court.
Not that it will ever happen to me, but 'just in case' could you explain how you managed to overcome the combined evidence of three policemen testifying against you?
I took a photo which showed what they could see from their panda car. From the photo it was obvious they could not see the red light they claimed they could see *even if* they also thought I went through it. Officer 'A'swore blind that he could see the light until I produced the photo, then he said he could see a 'reflection of the light'. Officer 'B' told the court that it was impossible to see any light, let alone a red one, I thus argued that it was impossible to see any offence committed. Officer 'C' could not remember if he could see what colour the light was... which made him look silly if he then swore that it was red!
Similarly through cross examination and the photo I showed that it was also impossible for them to see the entrance of the junction. Officer 'A' cottoned on what I was getting at so then tactfully changed the wording of his statement in his testimony to say that he *did* somehow see me enter the junction. I tripped up both officers 'B' and 'C' into admitting that the first time they set eyes on my car was when I was already in the centre of the junction. Thus it was perfectly plausible that *as I had maintained from the minute of being stopped* I had been waiting in the centre of the junction to turn right when the light turned red.
I have helped another PHer in a similar situation, ya55er i think his name was. He also defended himself and won. All I will say is if you are innocent and you have evidence or at least some common sense evidence that what is said about you is incorrect then you have a chance. For example, officer 'C' in court had a hard time explaining how after supposedly after crossing the stop line *4 seconds* after the opposing lights had turned green how on earth I managed to get through a full 4 lanes of traffic crossing in front of me without flying!
justinp1 said:
[...]
For example, officer 'C' in court had a hard time explaining how after supposedly after crossing the stop line *4 seconds* after the opposing lights had turned green how on earth I managed to get through a full 4 lanes of traffic crossing in front of me without flying!
I do hope you pusued a perjury complaint against them.
Lying cnuts like tat have no place in the police.
fluffnik said:
justinp1 said:
[...]
For example, officer 'C' in court had a hard time explaining how after supposedly after crossing the stop line *4 seconds* after the opposing lights had turned green how on earth I managed to get through a full 4 lanes of traffic crossing in front of me without flying!
I do hope you pusued a perjury complaint against them.
Lying cnuts like tat have no place in the police.
The presiding judge who was a visiting crown court judge who held the case instead of magistrates actually pre-empted this by stating that it was his recommendation that 'no action' be taken against the officers.
Also to be honest after spending eight months of my time trying to clear my name, having fought and won against an experienced and professional lawyer and three 'expert' witnesses who were prepared to do what they did I was just glad to have my name cleared and go home.
It has of course swayed my opinion of the integrity of *some* police officers despite I the fact that I know for a fact that the huge majority have the utmost integrity. I do also understand that in every walk of life people make mistakes. It is for this reason that when I hear on these forums of cases where people honestly belive they are innocent despite the 'evidence' against them, I try to help out with my experiences where I can. I am glad to know that my help has cleared the name of two other PHers, one of which who would have lost his licence and job. That is enough for me rather than pursue action against the officers involved. I also think that next time they think about that they can use 'heavy tactics' to pull over a young ld in a nice car and try to do the same thing they may think twice.
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