Points question

[woodytvr]

My brother has 6 points on his licence for speeding (one offence). On his licence it says Date of offence **/10/03 ** because I don't know the exact date. And Date of conviction **/03/04.

Do his points run from Conviction or Offence.

He's interested to know as he thinks he's been zapped by a camera van and at speed which will probably land him 6 points again.

[^Slider^]

The points are date of offence provided there was no ban, and date of conviction if a ban was imposed. Its valid for 3 years so if hes been zapped hes within the 3 yr period so will count for totting up.

Edited by ^Slider^ on Monday 11th September 13:29

[woodytvr]

But the points will be clear by the time he get's to court, I doubt they'll get him there before next month.

[^Slider^]

Date of offence!

So offence commited whilst still having 6 points. Further 6 added for example = 12 at time of offence.

The date of conviction relates to bans so if he was banned in the previous incident then it is effective from date of conviction.

Does that make sense?

[bond-007]

So he is still liable to be banned?

[^Slider^]

If he was to be awarded 6 points for this offence then under totting up he would have 12 points at the time of the offence so potentially yes.

What speed was he caught doing?

[mel]

Is this the reason that your points stay on the license for 3 years but on the DVLA printout the courts get for 5 years, that way even if you string out a court appearance untill they have "gone" off of your license they'll still know you had them when the offence was comitted?

[Plotloss]

count for 3 years
on licence for 4 years
tell insurance for 5 years

I think.

[^Slider^]

The points are on your DVLA record permanently.

Plotloss is right, Valid for 3 stay on for 4 but disclosable for 5 Courts can only use last 5 under ROA act i think.

Unless drink drive, dangerous driving et al or a ban then its 11 years.

[woodytvr]

I'm confused now.

So how long do you get banned under totting up, 12 months? Or will he just get banned for the amount of time there is potentially 12 points.

So Conviction number one is cleared on say 1st October 2006 but Conviction two runs from 1st September 2006 giving him a ban of one month, which I presume runs from date of Court which could be Jan 2007

[bond-007]

Totting ban is 6 months

[^Slider^]

woodytvr said:

I'm confused now.

So how long do you get banned under totting up, 12 months? Or will he just get banned for the amount of time there is potentially 12 points.

So Conviction number one is cleared on say 1st October 2006 but Conviction two runs from 1st September 2006 giving him a ban of one month, which I presume runs from date of Court which could be Jan 2007

Ok,

Its a 12 month ban unless mags decide otherwise for totting up.

The ban will run from the date of conviction.

So in your example:

Offence 1 6 points expires on 1st october 2006
Offence 2 occured on 1st september 2006 but does not get to court untill january 2007 where he is awarded 6 points (for example).

Since offence 2 occured before expiry of points for offence 1 then at the time of offence the number of points is 12.

That equals an upto 12 month driving ban.

But since the date of the ban is January 2007 the commencment of 12 month ban starts January 2007.

He may get lucky due to the timings and be awarded less than 6 points depending on speed. If he got 6 the first time around for silly speeds and this offence is also silly speeds then the court may take a dim view.

What speed was he doing and in what limit.

Does that clarify things a little

[woodytvr]

12 month ban would kill him. He'd lose his job, house everything. No-ones fault but his own but 12 months seems harsh for the sake of one month.

His first was 67 in a 40, it's a dual carrageway which used to be 70 right through but they made the first part a 40. He was accelerating out of the 40 into the 70 but did it a tad too soon.

Second (the other day) was dual carrageway again (different one) used to be 70 now blanket 60 with cameras. He passed the camera at 60 then accelerated away only to spot a camera van around the corner. He's unsure of the exact speed but he says it would have been close to 100 so I guess about 90ish.

His Grandma depends on him to do her shopping and other running around and on occasion so does our mother (when Dad works away) who has MS - Hospital trips or if she takes a bad turn. Does this sort of thing genuinely help to reduce the risk of a ban or is he going to make matters worse by trying to use it?

[SS2.]

^Slider^ said:

Its a 12 month ban unless mags decide otherwise for totting up.

AIUI, a totting ban = a period of disqualification of at least six months, unless extreme hardship (to others) can be demonstrated. The ban would be 12 months only if there had been a previous totting ban within three years of the last offence.

Woodytvr - Your brother may be interested to note that a conviction for failing to provide the driver details, contrary to s.172 Road Traffic Act 1988, currently carries a maximum penalty of 3 points only.

Sometimes, silence is golden..

edit to add - as is the case with all endorseable offences, the Magistrates have it in their power to hand out a discretionary disqualification. To the best of my knowledge though, this is effectively unheard of for failing to provide.

May be worth your bro' checking what an MS90 conviction would do for his insurance also..

Edited by SS2. on Tuesday 12th September 10:53

[mel]

When I went up for a single offence of 106 on an NSL dual carrageway every one said that i would get a ban no question about it. I had explained to me that the top mitigating circumstances were as follows.

1. Extreme hardship to yourself and your family resulting from loss of job.

2. Extreme hardship to others which would result from your loss of license such as having to lay employees off or close a business.

3. Personal diasability or medical treatment that is on going and serious and requires you to attend hospital for treatment which would be seriously effected by your loss of ability to drive.

4. Dependant, sick or elderly relatives or family who are dependant on your ability to drive to take car of them.

I was advised that all 4 of the above were viewed as mitigating, I didn't listen to the advice that I should use any one of them and really went for it with a pre prepared speech using all 4! I represented myself and asked that I be allowed to read form my notes as what I needed to say was so important that I couldn't afford to miss anything, I then really layed it on thick and almost had the bench in tears! The chairman responded by saying immediately that they were not going to ban me, they then awarded 6 point and £300 while almost saying sorry, they wished me well hoped things turned out ok and asked if I needed time to pay! If you go for it and lay it on heavy but based on some truth they are generally ok and I honestly believe that no solicitor could have got a better result than I did in that instance. They DO NOT HAVE to impose a ban.