Way around S172?
Discussion
What about this for a potential way to avoid the whole section 172 thang?
A parent buys a car, insures it, and puts their child (of driving age – 18+) on the insurance. Child, when buying their car does same..insures car in their name, but with parent as additional driver. Parent and child swap cars. Parent caught speeding by scamera. Child receives NIP - "Sorry pratnership, I have no clue who was driving, it was either my mum or dad, or any one of their friends - as they use my car"
If these people live at different addresses, and are both married / with partner (who also drives the car) – how can the parent ever know if child or son/daughter-in-law was driving? (Likewise other way around.)
Used parent/child as an example – but could equally have two couples who were friends do this. Insurance might be slightly higher with non-related people, but maybe not...otherwise I can’t see an issue.
Hope that makes sense
A parent buys a car, insures it, and puts their child (of driving age – 18+) on the insurance. Child, when buying their car does same..insures car in their name, but with parent as additional driver. Parent and child swap cars. Parent caught speeding by scamera. Child receives NIP - "Sorry pratnership, I have no clue who was driving, it was either my mum or dad, or any one of their friends - as they use my car"
If these people live at different addresses, and are both married / with partner (who also drives the car) – how can the parent ever know if child or son/daughter-in-law was driving? (Likewise other way around.)
Used parent/child as an example – but could equally have two couples who were friends do this. Insurance might be slightly higher with non-related people, but maybe not...otherwise I can’t see an issue.
Hope that makes sense
tigger1 said:
What about this for a potential way to avoid the whole section 172 thang?
A parent buys a car, insures it, and puts their child (of driving age – 18+) on the insurance. Child, when buying their car does same..insures car in their name, but with parent as additional driver. Parent and child swap cars. Parent caught speeding by scamera. Child receives NIP - "Sorry pratnership, I have no clue who was driving, it was either my mum or dad, or any one of their friends - as they use my car"
If these people live at different addresses, and are both married / with partner (who also drives the car) – how can the parent ever know if child or son/daughter-in-law was driving? (Likewise other way around.)
Used parent/child as an example – but could equally have two couples who were friends do this. Insurance might be slightly higher with non-related people, but maybe not...otherwise I can’t see an issue.
Hope that makes sense
A parent buys a car, insures it, and puts their child (of driving age – 18+) on the insurance. Child, when buying their car does same..insures car in their name, but with parent as additional driver. Parent and child swap cars. Parent caught speeding by scamera. Child receives NIP - "Sorry pratnership, I have no clue who was driving, it was either my mum or dad, or any one of their friends - as they use my car"
If these people live at different addresses, and are both married / with partner (who also drives the car) – how can the parent ever know if child or son/daughter-in-law was driving? (Likewise other way around.)
Used parent/child as an example – but could equally have two couples who were friends do this. Insurance might be slightly higher with non-related people, but maybe not...otherwise I can’t see an issue.
Hope that makes sense
I suppose they could always ask them?
I don't think the parent/child example would work due to there usually being conditions that the parent is the main driver, someone at a different, possibly higher risk address using a car owned by someone else may cause problems. But as for the scenario, I've do idea how deeply they look into these cases, but I like your problem solving
beyond rational said:
I don't think the parent/child example would work due to there usually being conditions that the parent is the main driver, someone at a different, possibly higher risk address using a car owned by someone else may cause problems. But as for the scenario, I've do idea how deeply they look into these cases, but I like your problem solving
Well, I know of a lot of people who whilst at uni had cars that were "owned" and insured by their parents, and many didn't bother to tell the insurance company that they had them away from "home"...I think in cases where there was a problem (bump / theft) they just claimed to have borrowed it for a week. Much lower premiums that way.
tigger1 said:
What about this for a potential way to avoid the whole section 172 thang?
A parent buys a car, insures it, and puts their child (of driving age – 18+) on the insurance. Child, when buying their car does same..insures car in their name, but with parent as additional driver. Parent and child swap cars. Parent caught speeding by scamera. Child receives NIP - "Sorry pratnership, I have no clue who was driving, it was either my mum or dad, or any one of their friends - as they use my car"
If these people live at different addresses, and are both married / with partner (who also drives the car) – how can the parent ever know if child or son/daughter-in-law was driving? (Likewise other way around.)
Used parent/child as an example – but could equally have two couples who were friends do this. Insurance might be slightly higher with non-related people, but maybe not...otherwise I can’t see an issue.
Hope that makes sense
A parent buys a car, insures it, and puts their child (of driving age – 18+) on the insurance. Child, when buying their car does same..insures car in their name, but with parent as additional driver. Parent and child swap cars. Parent caught speeding by scamera. Child receives NIP - "Sorry pratnership, I have no clue who was driving, it was either my mum or dad, or any one of their friends - as they use my car"
If these people live at different addresses, and are both married / with partner (who also drives the car) – how can the parent ever know if child or son/daughter-in-law was driving? (Likewise other way around.)
Used parent/child as an example – but could equally have two couples who were friends do this. Insurance might be slightly higher with non-related people, but maybe not...otherwise I can’t see an issue.
Hope that makes sense
What does insurance have to do with it?
herewego said:
What does insurance have to do with it?
If you insure a call as the primary user and then allow someone else by the primary user you are in breach of your insurance and technically not insured. Similarly if you say you park your car on your drive and you don't you technically have no insurance.
bluepolarbear said:
herewego said:
What does insurance have to do with it?
If you insure a call as the primary user and then allow someone else by the primary user you are in breach of your insurance and technically not insured. Similarly if you say you park your car on your drive and you don't you technically have no insurance.
Surely, but what has that to do with S172?
Just two points:
Firstly 172 can be served on any person who may have information as to who the driver was and if he fails to supply = offence.
Secondly the Reg Keeper is not providing details so will be taken to Court where he will have to satisfy the Bench that he did not know who the driver was. A tangled web has been heard before (to the detriment of the genuine person in that predicament) and no doubt get short shrift.
dvd
Firstly 172 can be served on any person who may have information as to who the driver was and if he fails to supply = offence.
Secondly the Reg Keeper is not providing details so will be taken to Court where he will have to satisfy the Bench that he did not know who the driver was. A tangled web has been heard before (to the detriment of the genuine person in that predicament) and no doubt get short shrift.
dvd
Bit of a hijack, but relates to the insurance question. I was contemplating a business which signs up Poles in London as 'points mules'. You get an FPN, you contact me, I find you a Pole who takes the rap and a £50 bung. The Pole doesn't mind because there's no communication with Poland (yet) and she isn't planning on driving in the UK, so a skeleton DVLA record wouldn't matter.
The 'only' problem I could see was insurance. When you accept a speeding conviction, is there any verification by the authorities that you were insured on the vehicle in question?
What is the blindingly obvious flaw in my brilliant scheme? (apart from the fact that my polish friends are all really honest) [so am I, this is purely hypothetical!]
The 'only' problem I could see was insurance. When you accept a speeding conviction, is there any verification by the authorities that you were insured on the vehicle in question?
What is the blindingly obvious flaw in my brilliant scheme? (apart from the fact that my polish friends are all really honest) [so am I, this is purely hypothetical!]
7db said:
blackvanman said:
What is the blindingly obvious flaw in my brilliant scheme?
6 months in jail for perverting the course of justice.
Highly unlikely.
At worst, a s.172 prosecution. You can't be charged with PCJ if you claim to not know who was driving. The police would have to prove you did know. Virtually impossible.
DeMolay said:
7db said:
blackvanman said:
What is the blindingly obvious flaw in my brilliant scheme?
6 months in jail for perverting the course of justice.
Highly unlikely.
At worst, a s.172 prosecution. You can't be charged with PCJ if you claim to not know who was driving. The police would have to prove you did know. Virtually impossible.
Its all been tried before but feel free to have a go. I think you can still post from the jail laptops that they will have in your cell. By all means try it out and let us know the result.
You just need to get a nosy bobby to pick it up and then this happens:
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/224/224001_surveyor_expelled_over_speed_fines_scam_.html
www.manchestereveningnews.co.uk/news/s/224/224001_surveyor_expelled_over_speed_fines_scam_.html
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