RE: Public confidence in accident stats crashes
Monday 2nd October 2006
The Department of Transport's (DfT) recent revelations of road casualty statistics have gone some way towards removing what little public confidence remained in the speed camera programme and Department for Transport road safety policy, according to road safety campaign Safe Speed. It's because "all their data is dodgy", said the campaign.
Public confidence in accident stats crashes
Road safety campaign dissects latest government figures
Safe Speed has tackled the DfT's claims head-on:
Serious injury data
DfT claims massive improvements in road safety based in substantial declines in serious injuries and KSI over a decade or so. Safe Speed pointed out in 2004 that the serious injury stats were behaving strangely and unsuitable for year-on-year comparisons. In 2006, the British Medical Journal and the Statistics Commission agreed. Hospitalisation data shows not improvement over a decade.
20 30 40 message
The DfT rightly says that at 30mph 20 per cent are killed. But only 0.47 per cent of child pedestrians hit by cars are killed. Impact speed and 'free travelling speed' are on average wildly different, according to Safe Speed, which said it has been pointing this out since 2002.
Crash reductions at speed camera sites
Such claims are massively dominated by a statistical error called regression to the mean. Safe Speed has been pointing this out since 2002. Appendix H of the '4th year report' of the speed camera programme finally admits that it is a huge effect, but DfT excludes any adjustment from its headline claims.
One-third of crashes are caused by speeding
The truth came out on Thursday. It isn't 'one third', it's five per cent. They aren't 'caused by speeding' - instead they are crashes where speeding may be a contributory factor. We say 'may be' because recorded along with the contributory factor data is a 'confidence rating'. The DfT has ignored the confidence rating -- with no reason given.
Founder of Safe Speed Paul Smith said: "All the claims that DfT has been using to support the speed camera programme are 'dodgy'. The entire project is founded on false assumption and dodgy statistics. The DfT has completely failed to consider side effects -- of which there are many. This is an extraordinary story of 'systematic failure' of a government department with institutional false beliefs. It has found dodgy data and used it to mislead the public about their own effectiveness. As a result thousands have died on our road who would have lived if we had sound road safety policies.
"DfT is institutionally unable to understand the process of safe driving and is not fit for purpose. Their policies are wildly wrong and have caused great damage to UK road safety. Speed cameras must be scrapped. Department for Transport must be restructured.
"Road safety depends on it."
Discussion
The General installation of speed camaras is all about making money,I don,t have problem with them being outside every school in the UK,but to use the safety angle to justify there general use out of order!! They are not going to give up their cash cow over nite.Public opinion would have to get to riot level before this would govenment to even take notice that there is a problem!
Bruceb14 said:
The General installation of speed camaras is all about making money,I don,t have problem with them being outside every school in the UK,
I do. They cause an increase in accident rates in roadworks for a start. We are told that we need to slow down in roadworks to prevent all the deaths we are responsible for cos we speed, yet the scameras used in roadworks raise the levels of death and injury and the DFT acknowledge it to be true, yet they dont prevent them from being used there.
Why do you think there arent any scams outside schools? Because the minute they "think of the children" and play the big experiment using their lives, the whole house of shit covered cards would come falling down.
The truth is, that if they were dumb enough to use them outside schools, deaths would rise, and they know it. Thats why you dont see them outside of schools, that and no revenue.
Still ok with them being there?
Deltafox said:
Bruceb14 said:
The General installation of speed camaras is all about making money,I don,t have problem with them being outside every school in the UK,
I do. They cause an increase in accident rates in roadworks for a start. We are told that we need to slow down in roadworks to prevent all the deaths we are responsible for cos we speed, yet the scameras used in roadworks raise the levels of death and injury and the DFT acknowledge it to be true, yet they dont prevent them from being used there.
Why do you think there arent any scams outside schools? Because the minute they "think of the children" and play the big experiment using their lives, the whole house of shit covered cards would come falling down.
The truth is, that if they were dumb enough to use them outside schools, deaths would rise, and they know it. Thats why you dont see them outside of schools, that and no revenue.
Still ok with them being there?
Agreed. I want drivers concentrating on what's around, particularly near schools at both ends of the school day, rather than worring about speed traps. Also, at school times, there's usually so much traffic it would be unusual to get to more than 15mph past most school gates.
...and well done Safespeed.
The british public are the british public nothing will ever be done. We all do as we're told by the goverment without even raising an eyebrow or protest. We all know that in the UK, no matter how many people get up and collectively say "NO we don't want this" the goverment just ignores it. In Europe the people say no to something in big enough numbers and the goverment takes note. They have no choice but listen to the people otherwise they know they are out next time the elections come up, their people don't forget. Unfortunately goverment in the UK is so used to getting it's own way, everytime, they just carry on the same course of action and totally ignore what the british public really want, just like some spoilt child.
Evidence suggests speed cameras do absolutely no good and are there purely for revenue generation. The goverment will lie through their teeth and spew all sorts of contrived and manipulated BULLSHIT statistics to justify their means, but we all know its crap. There is nothing you can do about it. Until there's some kind of major british automotive revolt by the people, things will stay the same. I think if we all worked together to collectively protest and deny the goverment their speed camera revenues it might actually achieve something. But then again this is Britain, so maybe not. We're all far too civilised and well behaved!!!
RANT OVER Francis
Evidence suggests speed cameras do absolutely no good and are there purely for revenue generation. The goverment will lie through their teeth and spew all sorts of contrived and manipulated BULLSHIT statistics to justify their means, but we all know its crap. There is nothing you can do about it. Until there's some kind of major british automotive revolt by the people, things will stay the same. I think if we all worked together to collectively protest and deny the goverment their speed camera revenues it might actually achieve something. But then again this is Britain, so maybe not. We're all far too civilised and well behaved!!!
RANT OVER Francis
scoobiewrx said:
There is nothing you can do about it.
Oh but there is.
You can actively skew the data these parasites collect by raising the average speeds theyre now intent on using to set speed limits.
You see the double lines across a road? Boot it across them by a wide margin, do it more than once so that the averages go UP, just where they should be.
Other than that, you could always do a few night ops.
You can pass the message on to everyone whos ear you can gain.
Dont just rant, give an explanation, back up your viewpoint with facts. This is where the enemy fall down every step of the way: They LIE!
Speed past every scamera going towards it so that it double flashes, then when the parasites take a look at the "offences" field on the display inside, theyll get another set of stats that foul up their existing ones.
Fight your nips, look for irregularities etc.
Theres a few ideas for starters of what you can do as an individual to level the playing field. We know these pricks play with a stacked deck and its our duty to expose what they do in our name and the name of road safety.
scoobiewrx said:
Until there's some kind of major british automotive revolt by the people, things will stay the same.
Never happen. Full stop.
scoobiewrx said:
I think if we all worked together to collectively protest and deny the goverment their speed camera revenues it might actually achieve something.
See above. Reason? Too many well padded asses want an easy life and believe that its "too much aggro" or "ill miss eastenders" or "big brother" (if they should go out and do something). In other words Apathy, low self esteem and poor excuses are holding us back (well some of you
) Dont expect any help from the likes of these people, theyre the sort that want you to wipe their butts for them because they cant be bothered.
Just look at the problems Paul Smith has had (and continues to have) with funding.
A small hardcore of supporters has kept this guy going and got us to a stage where the truth is leaching out. We need a flood of truth to wash away the filth that is the "partnerships", and its on its way the minute we make it happen.
Deltafox said:
......Just look at the problems Paul Smith has had (and continues to have) with funding.
A small hardcore of supporters has kept this guy going and got us to a stage where the truth is leaching out. We need a flood of truth to wash away the filth that is the "partnerships", and its on its way the minute we make it happen.
A small hardcore of supporters has kept this guy going and got us to a stage where the truth is leaching out. We need a flood of truth to wash away the filth that is the "partnerships", and its on its way the minute we make it happen.
Frankly it is Paul Smiths tireless work in liasing and working with the media that have rightly got the scamerati etc on the defensive. What is so galling is that with a little extra financial backing he could be even more effective in bringing the issues to a front.
I urge anyone with an interest in road safety and motoring to consider making a contribution towards safespeeds expenses.
Wether it be a one off contribution:
www.safespeed.org.uk/join.html
or perhaps a monthly amount through the new associates scheme:
www.safespeed.org.uk/associates.html
Any contributioon is an investment in bringing commons sense and science to the road safety debate as opposed to social engineering and political dogma.
Edited by dazren on Monday 2nd October 16:30
Bruceb14 said:
I don,t have problem with them being outside every school in the UK
Are you sure? Just like so called 'Traffic-Calming' My kids school had speed bumps installed outside a while back, One right-across-the-road bump on the crossing and two of those crap square things on the road; due to the design and the height of these godforsaken things one has to concentrate on the bump to avoid damaging one's car so attention is drawn from the road/conditions/pedestrians and loads of people drive in the middle of the road to avoid straddling the bump - they are an accident waiting to happen.
The road was previously NSL and they fitted the bumps et all to 'slow down' the traffic (there wasn't a speeding problem) so the bumps were installed at the same time as the speed limit was reduced to 30mph (no experience of whether the 30mph limit would be obeyed or not). When they originally installed it they actually built a wall on the verge to give the effect of 'narrowing' - this totally obscured a drivers view of the School gates, fortunately they removed this death-trap after a few months (never said why though) and they reduced the height of the right-across-the-road bump due to nearby houses complaining of the noise.
The people that designed the whole setup really are Idiots of the highest order.
Road Safety - My Arse........
Sadly I don't think the statistical truth coming out will have any effect whatsoever. This government's policy seems to be "Don't drive safe, drive scared". Worried drivers constantly on the lookout for speed bumps, cameras, hidden speed limits etc. are far less likely to spot a looming potential accident.
dazren said:
Deltafox said:
......Just look at the problems Paul Smith has had (and continues to have) with funding.
A small hardcore of supporters has kept this guy going and got us to a stage where the truth is leaching out. We need a flood of truth to wash away the filth that is the "partnerships", and its on its way the minute we make it happen.
A small hardcore of supporters has kept this guy going and got us to a stage where the truth is leaching out. We need a flood of truth to wash away the filth that is the "partnerships", and its on its way the minute we make it happen.
Frankly it is Paul Smiths tireless work in liasing and working with the media that have rightly got the scamerati etc on the defensive. What is so galling is that with a little extra financial backing he could be even more effective in bringing the issues to a front.
You know...i quite agree and maybe we should all be doing something positive to help people like Paul Smith out. Who else is out there is publicly speaking out about this skanky and legitimate highway robbery of the publics hard earned cash. I really don't know of that many people who are as vocal as Paul Smith. Also, don't we all pay enough as it is to drive our cars on the road? Surely the roads are becoming a safer place to be as a result of safer modern car design, experienced good drivers and better learner driving tuition and examination.
Round my way there was a straight road with houses down both sides and a few side turnings. They reckoned there was a speeding problem. Seemed to me to be the usual most cars doing 40ish in a 30 zone situation. Their solution? Put chicanes in at each junction and give the side road the right of way. Total chaos is now the order of the day. The people coming out of the side roads don't excersise their right of way and so they stop but so does everyone else. Half of those driving straight through don't stop at all and drive in the middle of the road to make the chicane as straight as possible. Amazingly I have not seen an accident yet but then I do avoid using the road now.
This government's policy seems to be "Don't drive safe, drive scared".
oh no
it is DO NOT DRIVE AT ALL...
btw the Earth is "around" the Sun but so Neptune
Why I do not hear a single policeman now taking this opportunity to set the record straight and regain public trust further exposing the Government miopic approach to road safety?
How long must we wait?
A67
oh no
it is DO NOT DRIVE AT ALL...
btw the Earth is "around" the Sun but so Neptune
Why I do not hear a single policeman now taking this opportunity to set the record straight and regain public trust further exposing the Government miopic approach to road safety?
How long must we wait?
A67
catso said:
Bruceb14 said:
I don,t have problem with them being outside every school in the UK
Are you sure? Just like so called 'Traffic-Calming' My kids school had speed bumps installed outside a while back, One right-across-the-road bump on the crossing and two of those crap square things on the road; due to the design and the height of these godforsaken things one has to concentrate on the bump to avoid damaging one's car so attention is drawn from the road/conditions/pedestrians and loads of people drive in the middle of the road to avoid straddling the bump - they are an accident waiting to happen.
The road was previously NSL and they fitted the bumps et all to 'slow down' the traffic (there wasn't a speeding problem) so the bumps were installed at the same time as the speed limit was reduced to 30mph (no experience of whether the 30mph limit would be obeyed or not). When they originally installed it they actually built a wall on the verge to give the effect of 'narrowing' - this totally obscured a drivers view of the School gates, fortunately they removed this death-trap after a few months (never said why though) and they reduced the height of the right-across-the-road bump due to nearby houses complaining of the noise.
The people that designed the whole setup really are Idiots of the highest order.
Road Safety - My Arse........
...but why are there such idiots in positions of influence in just about every local authority in the land? It's weird, almost sinister.
james_j said:
...but why are there such idiots in positions of influence in just about every local authority in the land? It's weird, almost sinister.
Pay peanuts, get monkies. At least, it used to be true, but now the L.A pay scales seem rather well inflated and related to the private sector so now it is pay lots, still get monkies.
It is only Doctors, Teachers, Police and Nurses who IMHO actually deserve to get paid more than they do, but oddly it is the NHS Managers, Senior Police, and Council Directors who get paid s**t loads whether they screw us, and everything they touch, up or not.
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