they really don't get it do they....makes my piss boil!
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Road accidents hit five-year high despite speed cameras
By Ben Briggs
CRITICS claim that speed cameras are failing after new figures showed the number of accidents in Lancashire was at a five-year high.
In response to the statistics, which showed that minor accidents were at the highest level since 2001 and serious accidents since 1999 the Lancashire Partnership for Road Safety has unveiled plans to install new speed cameras for the first time in two years.
But the decision to start installing two new cameras every year has sparked outrage among an MP and a road safety group.
continued...
They feel the partnership has gone back on a pledge in 2004 to stop at the current total of 293 cameras and work on other road safety initiatives.
And they said that the partnership should instead investigate other ways of making Lancashire's roads safer as the new figures "showed speed cameras were failing".
But the bosses at the partnership, made up of councils, the police and other agencies, hit back and claimed that the rise was down to an increase in traffic numbers.
Figures released by the partnership show that there were 912 people killed or seriously injured (KSI) on Lancashire's roads in 2005, a rise of 2.9 per cent on the previous year and the highest rate since 1999 when there were 996 KSIs and less than 70 speed cameras in the county.
Slight casualties also rose by 4.6 per cent to 5,794, the highest level since 2001.
Conservative MP for Ribble Valley, Nigel Evans, said increasing the number of cameras was a "ridiculous" reaction to the figures.
He added: "The speed camera policy has been proven not work.
"The policy of littering the country with speed cameras does not work.
"Other traffic calming measures need to be looked at.
"In my constituency on the A59 between Sabden and Clitheroe we have been calling for the installation of a roundabout yet all they do is stop right turns.
"Maybe they could provide what we needed if the stopped wasting the money on speed cameras."
Paul Smith, founder of Road Safety Campaign, added: "The speed camera policy has been a failure, no two ways about it.
"Figures from the department of transport show that without a shadow of a doubt that only one on 20 crashes involve a speeding vehicle.
"There are some much better targets for improving road safety and they involve targeting rogue drivers who are unlicensed or uninsured.
"To deal with them the police need to be out there on the street."
Mr Smith added that 60 per cent of crashed on UK road roads were caused by the worst 10 per cent of drivers and that they were the ones that needed targeting, a process that could not be helped by more speed cameras.
But Lancashire county Coun Tony Martin, cabinet member for sustainable development, said "he bet there was a 10 per cent increase in vehicle movement" on the county's roads which was the behind the rise.
He added: "We are putting money into road safety but the fact is that the amount of cars keeps going up.
"I don't think it's possible to manage this rise because we have a lot of strategic highways in Lancashire coming up from Manchester and through to Scotland.
"We are dealing with the most dangerous bits first.
"We put speed cameras in the most dangerous locations and they are proven to work, no doubt about it.
"People know were they are and they slow down. We will continue to use them because they are effective but they are not the only solution.
"One death on Lancashire roads cost over £1 million so if I can stop five people getting killed not only are we reducing the emotional impact but also the impact on the tax payer."
And the Leader of Burnley Council Gordon Birtwistle supported the partnership.
He said: "I think it's a good idea to put more speed cameras out there.
"They reduce speed and reduce accidents. I think it's a positive move. People drive to fast.
"They might be nice people on the street but some people change when they get behind the wheel of a car.
so basically even though deaths have risen, the accepted response from the scamera partnership and even the local council is that "well, i'll bet there was an increase in traffic" what hope is there when we are faced with these utter morons! how do they keep a straight face when spouting these falshoods?
as I say - it really boils my piss
an article in the lancaster evening telegraph said:
Road accidents hit five-year high despite speed cameras
By Ben Briggs
CRITICS claim that speed cameras are failing after new figures showed the number of accidents in Lancashire was at a five-year high.
In response to the statistics, which showed that minor accidents were at the highest level since 2001 and serious accidents since 1999 the Lancashire Partnership for Road Safety has unveiled plans to install new speed cameras for the first time in two years.
But the decision to start installing two new cameras every year has sparked outrage among an MP and a road safety group.
continued...
They feel the partnership has gone back on a pledge in 2004 to stop at the current total of 293 cameras and work on other road safety initiatives.
And they said that the partnership should instead investigate other ways of making Lancashire's roads safer as the new figures "showed speed cameras were failing".
But the bosses at the partnership, made up of councils, the police and other agencies, hit back and claimed that the rise was down to an increase in traffic numbers.
Figures released by the partnership show that there were 912 people killed or seriously injured (KSI) on Lancashire's roads in 2005, a rise of 2.9 per cent on the previous year and the highest rate since 1999 when there were 996 KSIs and less than 70 speed cameras in the county.
Slight casualties also rose by 4.6 per cent to 5,794, the highest level since 2001.
Conservative MP for Ribble Valley, Nigel Evans, said increasing the number of cameras was a "ridiculous" reaction to the figures.
He added: "The speed camera policy has been proven not work.
"The policy of littering the country with speed cameras does not work.
"Other traffic calming measures need to be looked at.
"In my constituency on the A59 between Sabden and Clitheroe we have been calling for the installation of a roundabout yet all they do is stop right turns.
"Maybe they could provide what we needed if the stopped wasting the money on speed cameras."
Paul Smith, founder of Road Safety Campaign, added: "The speed camera policy has been a failure, no two ways about it.
"Figures from the department of transport show that without a shadow of a doubt that only one on 20 crashes involve a speeding vehicle.
"There are some much better targets for improving road safety and they involve targeting rogue drivers who are unlicensed or uninsured.
"To deal with them the police need to be out there on the street."
Mr Smith added that 60 per cent of crashed on UK road roads were caused by the worst 10 per cent of drivers and that they were the ones that needed targeting, a process that could not be helped by more speed cameras.
But Lancashire county Coun Tony Martin, cabinet member for sustainable development, said "he bet there was a 10 per cent increase in vehicle movement" on the county's roads which was the behind the rise.
He added: "We are putting money into road safety but the fact is that the amount of cars keeps going up.
"I don't think it's possible to manage this rise because we have a lot of strategic highways in Lancashire coming up from Manchester and through to Scotland.
"We are dealing with the most dangerous bits first.
"We put speed cameras in the most dangerous locations and they are proven to work, no doubt about it.
"People know were they are and they slow down. We will continue to use them because they are effective but they are not the only solution.
"One death on Lancashire roads cost over £1 million so if I can stop five people getting killed not only are we reducing the emotional impact but also the impact on the tax payer."
And the Leader of Burnley Council Gordon Birtwistle supported the partnership.
He said: "I think it's a good idea to put more speed cameras out there.
"They reduce speed and reduce accidents. I think it's a positive move. People drive to fast.
"They might be nice people on the street but some people change when they get behind the wheel of a car.
so basically even though deaths have risen, the accepted response from the scamera partnership and even the local council is that "well, i'll bet there was an increase in traffic" what hope is there when we are faced with these utter morons! how do they keep a straight face when spouting these falshoods?
as I say - it really boils my piss
i'm absolutely fuming!
I read the part about Nigel Evans, thinking "Ooh! A parliamentarian who has a modicum of sense." Then I 'googled' him and found this...
Nigel Evans, Member of Parliament for the Ribble Valley has today welcomed the news that the Government is to ask all County Councils to review the speed limits on rural roads.
"Speed restrictions should not be dependant on children being killed or seriously injured before they are introduced. I welcome the news that speed limits of rural and country roads are to be reviewed"
Then he goes off quoting 'statistics'...
“Some 63 per cent of road deaths take place on rural and country roads. Many people across the Ribble Valley speak to me and write to me about vehicles speeding through their villages and the concern and fears that they have.
“Lancashire County Council must work closely with local residents and the police in their review of the speed of our roads and where necessary make recommendations to ensure that the speed limit are reduced.
“During my current tour of the Ribble Valley villages the number one issue has been speeding...There are over 40 villages and hamlets in the Ribble valley and people want speed on country roads reduced now.
“Road safety has to be a priority as far too many people are losing their lives due to motorists speeding. At the moment approximately one in three deaths are speed related and reducing your speed by an average of 1mph will cut accident frequency by 5 per cent”
Are there any MPs who understand that the primary route to improving road safety is to encourage people to use their brains and start thinking when they're behind the wheel?
Nigel Evans, Member of Parliament for the Ribble Valley has today welcomed the news that the Government is to ask all County Councils to review the speed limits on rural roads.
"Speed restrictions should not be dependant on children being killed or seriously injured before they are introduced. I welcome the news that speed limits of rural and country roads are to be reviewed"
Then he goes off quoting 'statistics'...
“Some 63 per cent of road deaths take place on rural and country roads. Many people across the Ribble Valley speak to me and write to me about vehicles speeding through their villages and the concern and fears that they have.
“Lancashire County Council must work closely with local residents and the police in their review of the speed of our roads and where necessary make recommendations to ensure that the speed limit are reduced.
“During my current tour of the Ribble Valley villages the number one issue has been speeding...There are over 40 villages and hamlets in the Ribble valley and people want speed on country roads reduced now.
“Road safety has to be a priority as far too many people are losing their lives due to motorists speeding. At the moment approximately one in three deaths are speed related and reducing your speed by an average of 1mph will cut accident frequency by 5 per cent”
Are there any MPs who understand that the primary route to improving road safety is to encourage people to use their brains and start thinking when they're behind the wheel?
While you're at it, you could write to this one too!
(from Hansard yesterday)
Rob Marris(Wolverhampton South West, Labour)
I congratulate the team and the Minister on the Bill...I seek assurance from the Minister on two issues. I tabled two amendments that we were unable to discuss today. The first was to make the penalty for using a hand-held mobile phone obligatory disqualification...
My second amendment related to the fitting of vehicle data recording devices—often called black boxes. Manufacturers are already doing that, but we do not have a regime for using the information from those devices, which are a major safety aid. In my area, the West Midlands police are retro-fitting black boxes in all their vehicles... I seek the Minister's assurance that the Government will continue to press that issue in the European Union so that we can have a regime across the EU whereby all new cars are fitted with vehicle data recording devices, which are a major aid to safety.
(from Hansard yesterday)
Rob Marris(Wolverhampton South West, Labour)
I congratulate the team and the Minister on the Bill...I seek assurance from the Minister on two issues. I tabled two amendments that we were unable to discuss today. The first was to make the penalty for using a hand-held mobile phone obligatory disqualification...
My second amendment related to the fitting of vehicle data recording devices—often called black boxes. Manufacturers are already doing that, but we do not have a regime for using the information from those devices, which are a major safety aid. In my area, the West Midlands police are retro-fitting black boxes in all their vehicles... I seek the Minister's assurance that the Government will continue to press that issue in the European Union so that we can have a regime across the EU whereby all new cars are fitted with vehicle data recording devices, which are a major aid to safety.
sevener said:
I read the part about Nigel Evans, thinking "Ooh! A parliamentarian who has a modicum of sense." Then I 'googled' him and found this...
[quote=Nigel Evans, Member of Parliament for the Ribble Valley]“Road safety has to be a priority as far too many people are losing their lives due to motorists speeding. At the moment approximately one in three deaths are speed related and reducing your speed by an average of 1mph will cut accident frequency by 5 per cent”
[/quote] [quote=Nigel Evans, Member of Parliament for the Ribble Valley]“Road safety has to be a priority as far too many people are losing their lives due to motorists speeding. At the moment approximately one in three deaths are speed related and reducing your speed by an average of 1mph will cut accident frequency by 5 per cent”
Wouldn't mnd hearing how this little nugget was shown to be statistically significant before it was rattled off for the press!
"Reducing your speed by an average of 1mph" - so I'm ok to speed momentarily as long as my average speed is reduced, and given that road design is awful, over the length of a journey average speed probably is down!
Is this chap really saying that 1 in 20 accidents would be avoided if people drove 1mph slower??? If he is then he's even dumber than your average Brake representative!
sevener said:
I read the part about Nigel Evans, thinking "Ooh! A parliamentarian who has a modicum of sense." Then I 'googled' him and found this...
Nigel Evans, Member of Parliament for the Ribble Valley has today welcomed the news that the Government is to ask all County Councils to review the speed limits on rural roads.
"Speed restrictions should not be dependant on children being killed or seriously injured before they are introduced. I welcome the news that speed limits of rural and country roads are to be reviewed"
Then he goes off quoting 'statistics'...
“Some 63 per cent of road deaths take place on rural and country roads. Many people across the Ribble Valley speak to me and write to me about vehicles speeding through their villages and the concern and fears that they have.
“Lancashire County Council must work closely with local residents and the police in their review of the speed of our roads and where necessary make recommendations to ensure that the speed limit are reduced.
“During my current tour of the Ribble Valley villages the number one issue has been speeding...There are over 40 villages and hamlets in the Ribble valley and people want speed on country roads reduced now.
“Road safety has to be a priority as far too many people are losing their lives due to motorists speeding. At the moment approximately one in three deaths are speed related and reducing your speed by an average of 1mph will cut accident frequency by 5 per cent”
Are there any MPs who understand that the primary route to improving road safety is to encourage people to use their brains and start thinking when they're behind the wheel?
Nigel Evans, Member of Parliament for the Ribble Valley has today welcomed the news that the Government is to ask all County Councils to review the speed limits on rural roads.
"Speed restrictions should not be dependant on children being killed or seriously injured before they are introduced. I welcome the news that speed limits of rural and country roads are to be reviewed"
Then he goes off quoting 'statistics'...
“Some 63 per cent of road deaths take place on rural and country roads. Many people across the Ribble Valley speak to me and write to me about vehicles speeding through their villages and the concern and fears that they have.
“Lancashire County Council must work closely with local residents and the police in their review of the speed of our roads and where necessary make recommendations to ensure that the speed limit are reduced.
“During my current tour of the Ribble Valley villages the number one issue has been speeding...There are over 40 villages and hamlets in the Ribble valley and people want speed on country roads reduced now.
“Road safety has to be a priority as far too many people are losing their lives due to motorists speeding. At the moment approximately one in three deaths are speed related and reducing your speed by an average of 1mph will cut accident frequency by 5 per cent”
Are there any MPs who understand that the primary route to improving road safety is to encourage people to use their brains and start thinking when they're behind the wheel?
This particular MP seems to be mainly influenced by the concerns of constituents about some folk driving too fast through their villages, which seems fair enough to me.
I don't know about individual MPs but the government seems to be concerned about driver training quality, if that is what you mean, according to this:
www.dft.gov.uk/stellent/groups/dft_rdsafety/documents/page/dft_rdsafety_504644-04.hcsp#P321_35355
Gordon Birtwistle will say anything these days to get in the local press, and Nigel Evans is the mp that wanted the Air Force to stop low level Tornado flights across Ribble Valley (They tended to fly where there were only sheep to worry about)
I wouldn't trust Burnley Council to do anything apart from screw up lives for the local poulace even more. The crap we have to deal with from them, the little cicky groups of councillors etc etc (As you can tell, I am not a fan of our local buffoons)
I wouldn't trust Burnley Council to do anything apart from screw up lives for the local poulace even more. The crap we have to deal with from them, the little cicky groups of councillors etc etc (As you can tell, I am not a fan of our local buffoons)
speedchick said:
Just to let you know though.... there are at present no cameras on a certain Preston to back of beyond motorway through Lancashire (I won't say it too loud in case someone hears and does something to rectify that)shhhhh I didn't tell you that! 
why, you are quite correct
a little birdie told me that it's possible to get from jct 31a to jct 43 (89 miles) in 45 minutes on that particular road
and stunning scenery too!
justinp1 said:
Ooh back to the old 'each death on the road costs £1,000,000' lie again........!
I would love to see how this £1,000,000 adds up. You could get the Elton John and the Stones to play at the funeral for that!
I would love to see how this £1,000,000 adds up. You could get the Elton John and the Stones to play at the funeral for that!
I believe the breakdown involves costs of repair,investigation, cost to the economy of the road closure, the cost of the hospital sevrices used etc etc. If you look into it the figures do actually work out.
Speed cameras also don't actually generate that much revenue. I think it has been said that Simon Cowell paid more income tax than the revenue generated from cameras.
Don't get me wrong I dont like them but in some places they would reduce the chances of death or serious injury and they have made most people aware of their speed.
Reality is speed does not cause an accident bad driving does that. Speed will just decide if you get a bump or whether you spread yourself over a fair section of the roadway.
justinp1 said:
Ooh back to the old 'each death on the road costs £1,000,000' lie again........!
I would love to see how this £1,000,000 adds up. You could get the Elton John and the Stones to play at the funeral for that!
I would love to see how this £1,000,000 adds up. You could get the Elton John and the Stones to play at the funeral for that!
IIRC, most of the £1,000,000 is 'accounted' for by a notional value for the loss of a life (relatives' grief, etc).
It's a completely made-up figure in order to sound impressive.
Mr_annie_vxr said:
justinp1 said:
Ooh back to the old 'each death on the road costs £1,000,000' lie again........!
I would love to see how this £1,000,000 adds up. You could get the Elton John and the Stones to play at the funeral for that!
I would love to see how this £1,000,000 adds up. You could get the Elton John and the Stones to play at the funeral for that!
I believe the breakdown involves costs of repair,investigation, cost to the economy of the road closure, the cost of the hospital sevrices used etc etc. If you look into it the figures do actually work out.
Speed cameras also don't actually generate that much revenue. I think it has been said that Simon Cowell paid more income tax than the revenue generated from cameras.
Don't get me wrong I dont like them but in some places they would reduce the chances of death or serious injury and they have made most people aware of their speed.
Reality is speed does not cause an accident bad driving does that. Speed will just decide if you get a bump or whether you spread yourself over a fair section of the roadway.
I've yet to hear the person on PH who doesn't subscribe to the viewpoint that scameras are bad and trafpol are good. VH excepted
minimax said:
speedchick said:
Just to let you know though.... there are at present no cameras on a certain Preston to back of beyond motorway through Lancashire (I won't say it too loud in case someone hears and does something to rectify that)shhhhh I didn't tell you that!
why, you are quite correct
a little birdie told me that it's possible to get from jct 31a to jct 43 (89 miles) in 45 minutes on that particular road
and stunning scenery too!
Eh??? are you talking about the A6?
I'm talking about the M65.... no speed cameras at all along the whole route from Preston to Colne (er, clue in the fact I said motorway!)
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