Argh, Help!! Car Finance Question
Discussion
I know that this is partly my fault, but would appreciate any assistance on how to handle something. I purchased a used car privately 2 years ago, and did an online HPI whilst at the persons house - I ran through it fairly quickly, and the page I got back had a full screen of green ticks, and at a quick glance all looked ok. Long and short is that the HPI check did not include finance information (which I assumed they all do).
Long and short of it is, we went to trade the car in today, got the deal we wanted, paid the deposit, only to be told there is outstanding finance from the previous owner due to be payed of by September next year.
Thankfully the dealer refunded our deposit, and will hold the car for a couple of days to see if we can sort something out.
I have name, address and numbers (mobile is dead, landline rings and goes to vm) for the previous owner.
Do you think I should ring the previous owner direct, and point out that what they are doing is illegal and that they must settle the finance and try and settle it nicely, or go straight to a solicitor, or ignore it, and keep the car until next year???
I am worried that if it were to turn sour, he could default on the payments and we would be carless!
Argh, I feel such a muppet!!
Long and short of it is, we went to trade the car in today, got the deal we wanted, paid the deposit, only to be told there is outstanding finance from the previous owner due to be payed of by September next year.
Thankfully the dealer refunded our deposit, and will hold the car for a couple of days to see if we can sort something out.
I have name, address and numbers (mobile is dead, landline rings and goes to vm) for the previous owner.
Do you think I should ring the previous owner direct, and point out that what they are doing is illegal and that they must settle the finance and try and settle it nicely, or go straight to a solicitor, or ignore it, and keep the car until next year???
I am worried that if it were to turn sour, he could default on the payments and we would be carless!
Argh, I feel such a muppet!!
The question is what type of finance. If its an HP or a lease then yes get a solicitor involved since he had no title to sell the car. If it a loan then you should be OK as he then has title. It maybe a breach of contract between him and the lender if he sells the car but the lender has no rights against you or the car.
Thanks Mrr T - I hope the guy is in tonight and answers - problem is it means we cannot trade the vehicle, so I basically have a couple of days for the guy to settle the finance.
It would be good to know how I find out who the finance is owed to so I could contact them as well - anyone know how I could do this?
It would be good to know how I find out who the finance is owed to so I could contact them as well - anyone know how I could do this?
Guess a lot depends on how much of the value of the car is outstanding, and the details of his finance agreement. My current finance is that once I have paid for more than half (could be two-thirds) of the car, the finance company have no claim over the car...but I think I still need to settle the finance before I'm allowed to sell it.
I'd be seeking some free legal advice PDQ if I was you!
CAB?
Local solicitor with free "consultation". It's a contract issue I guess.
Good luck - interesting to hear why it didn't show as outstanding finance on a HPI though, thought that was one of the main things they were done for.
I'd be seeking some free legal advice PDQ if I was you!
CAB?
Local solicitor with free "consultation". It's a contract issue I guess.
Good luck - interesting to hear why it didn't show as outstanding finance on a HPI though, thought that was one of the main things they were done for.
havoc said:
tigger1 said:
interesting to hear why it didn't show as outstanding finance on a HPI though, thought that was one of the main things they were done for.
Yeah, you and me both!
Very interesting indeed !!!
some exerts from HPI's web site
www.hpicheck.com/newfrontend/index.jsp
HPI said:
What HPI check
Outstanding finance
HPI uses the UK's most accurate database of finance agreements, with over 7 million current records. 24 out of every 100 vehicles checked with HPI turn out to have outstanding car finance. If the loan remains unpaid when the car changes hands, you stand to lose the car or the money outstanding on it.
.................................
The HPI Guarantee is valid for one year from the date of the check.
...................................
.......the HPI Guarantee provides up to £10,000 reimbursement of financial loss you suffer arising from inaccurate or incomplete information we supply to you as part of the HPI Check
The cover provided is based on the car's value. In the case where HPI provides incorrect data affecting vehicle title (such as theft or outstanding finance), the HPI Guarantee will cover up to £10,000, either in compensation or the costs needed to obtain good title to the vehicle (at HPI's discretion). In the case where HPI provides incorrect data affecting the vehicle's condition, the HPI Guarantee will cover up to £2,000 or 20% of the market value of the car, whichever is the lower.
I managed to get hold of the previous owner, and the cheeky *%&^$ told me there was £1000 left, and if I pay half he would pay the rest!!!!!!!
I will be going to CAB in the morning, and seeing what I can do, but I am absolutely fuming now. I don't want to be held over a barrel by someone for this! When I did the check it was not with HPI but an online vehicle history company, and stupidly I just scanned through the form online and it showed a list of green ticks and no problems, I thought that all these checks included outstanding finance, but this one didn't.
If he has broken contract (ie selling the car when he owes money against it) I need to know if it means he can be prosecuted without me being liable for the remaining finance?
I obviously had no idea about this, and would not have gone near the car if I had known!
I will be going to CAB in the morning, and seeing what I can do, but I am absolutely fuming now. I don't want to be held over a barrel by someone for this! When I did the check it was not with HPI but an online vehicle history company, and stupidly I just scanned through the form online and it showed a list of green ticks and no problems, I thought that all these checks included outstanding finance, but this one didn't.
If he has broken contract (ie selling the car when he owes money against it) I need to know if it means he can be prosecuted without me being liable for the remaining finance?
I obviously had no idea about this, and would not have gone near the car if I had known!
Yes the payments have been made for the last 17 months or so since I obtained the car!
I have spoken to CAB and they advise me that if I purchased the car innocently and had no inclination that the car was part of an HP agreement, then I have legal ownership and the finance company would not be able to lay claim with me in the case of payment default.
The problem I have is that I am now legally able to sell the vehicle, but that I cannot see any way that I can assure a buyer they will not be liable. I am speaking with a solicitor today to see if there is anyway I can get a statement from somewhere / one to verify this so I can sell at a reduced rate privately. Either that or I have to wait until September before the car is then clear of the HP agreement - making my blood boil to think I can be held over a barrel like this!!!
At least I know I am not in danger of loosing the vehicle anyway - alarming thing is that the CAB guy was reading up for me, and found that some HP doesn't always show up on HPI checks(!!!), and that a HPI company if they did not have access to the HP records cannot be held liable, ONLY if they supply information which is incorrect - eg if they said "no outstanding finance information FOUND" they could get away with it!!
I have spoken to CAB and they advise me that if I purchased the car innocently and had no inclination that the car was part of an HP agreement, then I have legal ownership and the finance company would not be able to lay claim with me in the case of payment default.
The problem I have is that I am now legally able to sell the vehicle, but that I cannot see any way that I can assure a buyer they will not be liable. I am speaking with a solicitor today to see if there is anyway I can get a statement from somewhere / one to verify this so I can sell at a reduced rate privately. Either that or I have to wait until September before the car is then clear of the HP agreement - making my blood boil to think I can be held over a barrel like this!!!
At least I know I am not in danger of loosing the vehicle anyway - alarming thing is that the CAB guy was reading up for me, and found that some HP doesn't always show up on HPI checks(!!!), and that a HPI company if they did not have access to the HP records cannot be held liable, ONLY if they supply information which is incorrect - eg if they said "no outstanding finance information FOUND" they could get away with it!!
esselte said:
Has the guy been paying the installments while you've had the car?If not it seems very strange that the finance co. haven't attempted to repossess.(is that spelt correctly?)
After x% has been paid (either 30 or 60%), the finance Co. cannot repossess the vehicle even if you don't make another payment.
Two things. First DO NOT BURY YOUR HEAD IN THE SAND! SOMEBODY WILL END UP KICKER YOUR BUM WHEN YOU ARE NOT LOOKING!
Second. I did this. i sold a car that had finance on it because the other car I was getting was a good deal. I did not know that I could not do this. (I was young and silly) The new owner phoned me direct to ask me about it.
I confessed straight away. We came to an agreement with the finance company who were very good that I had made a blunder but an honest blunder and so long as the finance coy got their dosh everything was kooshty.
I paid up as agreed, the new owner was happy, I got a nice car and funny enough a pleasant letter from the guy at finance thanking me for being up front.
So it does work out. Good luck.
Second. I did this. i sold a car that had finance on it because the other car I was getting was a good deal. I did not know that I could not do this. (I was young and silly) The new owner phoned me direct to ask me about it.
I confessed straight away. We came to an agreement with the finance company who were very good that I had made a blunder but an honest blunder and so long as the finance coy got their dosh everything was kooshty.
I paid up as agreed, the new owner was happy, I got a nice car and funny enough a pleasant letter from the guy at finance thanking me for being up front.
So it does work out. Good luck.
The problem is, that I am dealing with an unscrupulous, pain in the ass muppet who's only response when I phoned him was "you give me half the balance, and I will pay it off" - ie, you give me some cash, I will laugh and stick my middle finger up and be a little richer".
All I need to do is confirm that I can legally sell the vehicle on, and then sell it for a very good price and explain to any prospective purchaser the details.
All I need to do is confirm that I can legally sell the vehicle on, and then sell it for a very good price and explain to any prospective purchaser the details.
graemep said:
I have spoken to CAB and they advise me that if I purchased the car innocently and had no inclination that the car was part of an HP agreement, then I have legal ownership and the finance company would not be able to lay claim with me in the case of payment default.
This is wrong! The origional owner did not have "good title" to the vehicle, to sell it to you. Belive me, I've been there!!
graemp. I understand that your advice is correct. Speak to a solicitor about informing the Finance company of what you now know, and asserting to them your full title in the vehicle. That way, the finance company jump on the chump, not you. His credit rating goes west, and his ability to buy anything on HP disappears.
Another thought - confirmation from any PC's?
Would he have asserted legal title / free from HP at the time he sold it? Knowing that to be untrue, he has obtained advantage through the disemmination of false information. I thoght that was still "theft" under the 1968 Theft Act (isn't this what they do mortgage fraud under?). Could there be a charge in there womewhere?
Would he have asserted legal title / free from HP at the time he sold it? Knowing that to be untrue, he has obtained advantage through the disemmination of false information. I thoght that was still "theft" under the 1968 Theft Act (isn't this what they do mortgage fraud under?). Could there be a charge in there womewhere?
www.consumerdirect.gov.uk/goods-service/motor/fs_b02.shtml
Don't tell them you HPI'd it in the first place. It would help your case?
consumerdirect said:
Cars still owned by a credit company
A car bought on hire purchase or conditional sale belongs to the finance company until the payments have been completed. If you buy such a car, the lender can take it back. You can sue whoever sold you the car, but only if you can find them.
There are only a few exceptions to this. If you were not aware the car was subject to an outstanding hire purchase agreement and bought it in good faith, you may be allowed to keep it. This does not apply to stolen cars or cars which are subject to a hire agreement.
A car bought on hire purchase or conditional sale belongs to the finance company until the payments have been completed. If you buy such a car, the lender can take it back. You can sue whoever sold you the car, but only if you can find them.
There are only a few exceptions to this. If you were not aware the car was subject to an outstanding hire purchase agreement and bought it in good faith, you may be allowed to keep it. This does not apply to stolen cars or cars which are subject to a hire agreement.
Don't tell them you HPI'd it in the first place. It would help your case?
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