M4 fatality in camera van territory
Discussion
A fatal accident closed two lanes of the M4 eastbound early on Saturday (oct 28) morning.
The two-vehicle crash happened between junctions 17 and 16, which is the primary area the Wilts camera partnership prey on, and was the reason for the M4 camera protest a couple of years ago.
The driver of a box van was hit from behind by a Volkswagen Bora, which became embedded in the van's back.
The Bora's driver - a member of the armed forces - died in hospital.
It sounds like the van driver may have braked hard for some reason?
I wouldn't be at all suprised if a camera van sitting on a bridge is the main contributory factor of this tragedy.
The two-vehicle crash happened between junctions 17 and 16, which is the primary area the Wilts camera partnership prey on, and was the reason for the M4 camera protest a couple of years ago.
The driver of a box van was hit from behind by a Volkswagen Bora, which became embedded in the van's back.
The Bora's driver - a member of the armed forces - died in hospital.
It sounds like the van driver may have braked hard for some reason?
I wouldn't be at all suprised if a camera van sitting on a bridge is the main contributory factor of this tragedy.
But then the cameras were put in place because of accidents that have nothing to do with speeding. Suicide off a bridge and wheel coming off lorry to name but 2.
Making all cars do 70 is not really going to help you take evasive action from such an incident if you are travelling in a bunch of traffic with cars close either side and behind.
Making all cars do 70 is not really going to help you take evasive action from such an incident if you are travelling in a bunch of traffic with cars close either side and behind.
Tragic accident no doubt, the police are appealing for witnesses. As for the camera vans deployment, the bridge where it sits in just there and it is regularly there on a Saturday morning. Special time is when the sun is low as you are distracted trying to see the road. Any one coming to watch the Rally in Wales needs to be aware they will have it out just for you as they do for every match at the millenium stadium. I drive this road daily and there has been several near misses when someone hits the brakes when they spot it.
i think trying to blame it on camera vans is just plain stupid, you can't try and blame them for every accident on the road!
i used to drive the M4 regularly on my journeys home to south wales, and people used to do the same stupid braking when they noticed a patrol car car sat on one of those raised bumps, is this ok because its a parson in a car?
i used to drive the M4 regularly on my journeys home to south wales, and people used to do the same stupid braking when they noticed a patrol car car sat on one of those raised bumps, is this ok because its a parson in a car?
eccles said:
i think trying to blame it on camera vans is just plain stupid, you can't try and blame them for every accident on the road!
i used to drive the M4 regularly on my journeys home to south wales, and people used to do the same stupid braking when they noticed a patrol car car sat on one of those raised bumps, is this ok because its a parson in a car?
i used to drive the M4 regularly on my journeys home to south wales, and people used to do the same stupid braking when they noticed a patrol car car sat on one of those raised bumps, is this ok because its a parson in a car?
What's the vicar doing in a police car though?
I know we're short of trafpol but...
Personally I think any type of speed enforcement on motorways is going to create more problems than it could ever cure. These scam vans cause a very real danger that would not otherwise exist.
Trafpol driving with the flow can deal with aspects of poor driving though, but not when sat on their perch. Don't see that much at all these days.
deeps said:
eccles said:
i think trying to blame it on camera vans is just plain stupid, you can't try and blame them for every accident on the road!
i used to drive the M4 regularly on my journeys home to south wales, and people used to do the same stupid braking when they noticed a patrol car car sat on one of those raised bumps, is this ok because its a parson in a car?
i used to drive the M4 regularly on my journeys home to south wales, and people used to do the same stupid braking when they noticed a patrol car car sat on one of those raised bumps, is this ok because its a parson in a car?
What's the vicar doing in a police car though?
I know we're short of trafpol but...
Personally I think any type of speed enforcement on motorways is going to create more problems than it could ever cure. These scam vans cause a very real danger that would not otherwise exist.
Trafpol driving with the flow can deal with aspects of poor driving though, but not when sat on their perch. Don't see that much at all these days.
If you want to enforce speed , use unmarked cars & hidden cameras.
vonhosen said:
deeps said:
eccles said:
i think trying to blame it on camera vans is just plain stupid, you can't try and blame them for every accident on the road!
i used to drive the M4 regularly on my journeys home to south wales, and people used to do the same stupid braking when they noticed a patrol car car sat on one of those raised bumps, is this ok because its a parson in a car?
i used to drive the M4 regularly on my journeys home to south wales, and people used to do the same stupid braking when they noticed a patrol car car sat on one of those raised bumps, is this ok because its a parson in a car?
What's the vicar doing in a police car though?
I know we're short of trafpol but...
Personally I think any type of speed enforcement on motorways is going to create more problems than it could ever cure. These scam vans cause a very real danger that would not otherwise exist.
Trafpol driving with the flow can deal with aspects of poor driving though, but not when sat on their perch. Don't see that much at all these days.
If you want to enforce speed , use unmarked cars & hidden cameras.
Edited by Mon Ami Mate on Tuesday 31st October 16:31
vonhosen said:
If you want to enforce speed , use unmarked cars & hidden cameras.
Or make the message totally clear for motorways, enforce speed limiters and that let the public decide at the next election (if not before) whether it was a good idea to be open about a claimed desire for safety or whether you should have stuck with the tertiary taxation route.
I doubt the political 'masters' have the bottle for the honest route - if they remember what honesty is.
LongQ said:
vonhosen said:
If you want to enforce speed , use unmarked cars & hidden cameras.
Or make the message totally clear for motorways, enforce speed limiters and that let the public decide at the next election (if not before) whether it was a good idea to be open about a claimed desire for safety or whether you should have stuck with the tertiary taxation route.
I doubt the political 'masters' have the bottle for the honest route - if they remember what honesty is.
HGV's now have speedlimiters fitted and look have safe that's made them when they try to overtake. Why not just have a man walking in front with a red flag?
vonhosen said:
If you want to enforce speed , use unmarked cars & hidden cameras.
Why? Surely if you want to enforce something you have to make your prescence known. Highly visable police cars are the answer, its very simple, just because you don't see a police car as an imediate threat to yourself, and usually they'll be moving so you have sufficient warning. Speed Cameras are different, they are stationary all of the time, which means even if you are traveling at the posted speed limit you'll only have a few seconds warning. So people look out for them more and more, and aren't concentrating on the road as much as they should.
So picture the scene, a man driving at 70 mph exactly (speedo reading) on the motorway. He drives round a bend to see a white-van parked on a bridge overlooking the motorway. Then suddenly has a rush of adrenaline, his pulse is racing, "I can't make out the markings, I can't be sure it isn't a camera van, I'm almost past it, am I below 70?! Do I get fined if I'm doing 71 mph?!" and all the time being distracted from the world round him. I'm surprised that there hasn't been an increase in heart attacks at the wheel in recent years.
The Hitman said:
vonhosen said:
If you want to enforce speed , use unmarked cars & hidden cameras.
Why? Surely if you want to enforce something you have to make your prescence known. Highly visable police cars are the answer, its very simple, just because you don't see a police car as an imediate threat to yourself, and usually they'll be moving so you have sufficient warning. Speed Cameras are different, they are stationary all of the time, which means even if you are traveling at the posted speed limit you'll only have a few seconds warning. So people look out for them more and more, and aren't concentrating on the road as much as they should.
So picture the scene, a man driving at 70 mph exactly (speedo reading) on the motorway. He drives round a bend to see a white-van parked on a bridge overlooking the motorway. Then suddenly has a rush of adrenaline, his pulse is racing, "I can't make out the markings, I can't be sure it isn't a camera van, I'm almost past it, am I below 70?! Do I get fined if I'm doing 71 mph?!" and all the time being distracted from the world round him. I'm surprised that there hasn't been an increase in heart attacks at the wheel in recent years.
You know the unmarked are there, you just don't know where or when.
People react in the same way to a stationary Police vehicle as they do to the camera (whether it's doing speed enforcement or not). They even do it with HATO vehicles & they're not doing any speed enforcement.
Driving on the A14 (I think, Newmarket bypass) where it chages from 2 lanes to 3 on new years eve last year at 8.30am (Got a call from hospital to say get there quick don't think your dad's got long left) saw a fixed camera that I forgot was there, I had to scrub xxxx speed braked so hard the abs started, totally clear road nothing in front or behind but if there was something behind it would probably have hit me. Good thing these "SAFETY SCAMERAS"
vonhosen said:
You know the unmarked are there, you just don't know where or when.
People react in the same way to a stationary Police vehicle as they do to the camera (whether it's doing speed enforcement or not). They even do it with HATO vehicles & they're not doing any speed enforcement.
People react in the same way to a stationary Police vehicle as they do to the camera (whether it's doing speed enforcement or not). They even do it with HATO vehicles & they're not doing any speed enforcement.
Why are police cars normally on the side of a main road, Von? Its because they pulled someone over, which almost certainly means that their "blues & twos" will be on, and that means alot more prior warning. Also, if they are traveling on the road it means people will be more alert and watching the road rather than looking for speed cameras. If anyone are going to operate speed traps, then it will be always a problem. Unmarked cars aren't bad, but they need to be used in moderation with normal police units for the best efficiency.
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