The ULTIMATE Horror Story.
Discussion
Bear with me on this one, it’s a long post but really does describe what is the ultimate nightmare and one that I hope no-one else has been through or might go through in the future. Let's hope the title of this thread doesn’t make a newspaper headline someday soon, whether it does or not is not in my hands….
I bit of background for those that don’t know. I am the lucky owner of a superb Z4M Coupe, complete with Individual paintwork, extended leather and all the toys. The last car that will grace the S54 lump and a totally superb driving machine albeit with not much change from £50grand. The car is 4 weeks old, run in and has 1800 miles on the clock.
On Sunday evening I was returning from a trip to Snowdonia with my brother who had just run the marathon (mad bugger!). We pulled off the M54, planning to join the M6 toll to avoid the usual Sunday evening M6 traffic. I was just under ¼ full on fuel, but as we joined the A460 the welcoming lights of a BP fuel station came into view and as I only ever put either Shell’s VPower or BP Ultimate into my performance cars it made sense to fill up before hitting the motorway, thus ensuring a further 170 odd miles of uninterrupted travel home.
Bear with me, because the details might at some point be important, I don’t know.
My brother Chris had said he would pay for the fuel as I had been his chauffeur and supporter during his gruelling run. So I found the sole Ultimate pump, opened the fuel cap and Chris told me he would pay cash. The pump started clicking to indicate the tank was nearing full and we stopped at £38 on the nail. Chris asked me if I wanted a receipt and I said no. (Paying by cash and therefore not getting a receipt is extremely unusual for me.)
Fuel bill paid, we fired up the car and rejoined the single carriageway road. After only a few yards I noticed out of the corner of my eye the gear stick shuddering violently, this barely had time to register when I noticed the orange engine light come on, quickly followed by the EML light, then the car stuttered, stalled and came to an unceremonious halt. I was only just able to coast the car onto the side of the road, luckily into a farm entrance turning thus out of harms way as the impatient Sunday evening traffic thundered by.
Perplexed, I turned the key a few times...turned over fine, but couldn’t fire and sounded like a bag of nails or your granny spluttering on her 27th Capstan Full Strength of the day. One call later to BMW assist and I was assured rescue within the hour, taking the car to a destination of my choice (I chose my dealer Murketts, Huntingdon about 170 miles further south).
As my brother and I waited for the rescue truck to arrive we began analysing what had happened. Obviously we assumed the fuelling exercise was to blame and I began to my horror to consider whether I had inadvertently fuelled up with Ultimate diesel and not petrol (the branding is very similar). Deep down I knew this could not be the case, as it is impossible to fit the nozzle of a diesel pump into a modern petrol car. Notwithstanding this and eager to be certain, my brother ran back to the garage to check. He returned to confirm we had fuelled up with Ultimate 98 petrol and indeed our transaction was still showing on the pump. He also consulted the guy serving who also confirmed we had not made the most stupidest of mistakes.
Anyhow, the car has been at Murketts since Sunday evening and only today has the whole horror unfolded. I received a call initially on Tuesday to confirm that a sample had been taken from the bottom of the tank and early signs were that it was petrol, so further investigating was taking place to get a full diagnosis. Mid afternoon today a further call from Murketts to say that all other options had now been ruled out and the tank had been emptied and shown to consist of roughly 75% water! The dealership have confirmed to me that a replacement fuel filter and tank flush would solve the problem and all things being equal, I would get the car back tomorrow problem fixed, albeit I would be around £200 lighter thanks to their labour and a new fuel filter. They also stated that there should be no lasting damage to engine or cats.
Not that I don’t trust Murketts (they have looked after my CSL and Andy Pressland Service Manager is the one and only bloke I would ever trust to deal with my cars) but I needed to get a second opinion on whether water could in fact damage the engine. The key point here is of course that none of this will be covered by my warranty so you can understand my concerns. One call later (cheers SteveD) and my mind had been put at rest.
Unfortunately, 20 minutes later I received a further call from Murketts to say that on draining the fuel, sludge and debris has been found at the bottom of my tank and as such it was necessary to undertake further tests to assess the damage which could be considerable. Fuel lines, injectors etc etc could be damaged and ultimately I guess the engine itself may be affected. Andy had taken pictures with the aid of a mirror showing the brown discharge which I picked up from the bottom of the BP fuel station tank along with 40 litres of water. Judge for yourselves - (that brown stuff shown in the mirror has NO place in the fuel tank of a 4 week old car.....)
I have of course been in touch with BPs Customer Care line, I called initially yesterday to give them a heads up that there could be a problem. I was given a case number, but was told that the garage concerned was an independent and, as such, BP themselves could not be held liable for any claims unless it became apparent that they had delivered contaminated fuel. A letter has apparently been sent to me (not yet received) and more importantly to the garage in question noting the fact that there could be a claim for fuel contamination.
Following Murketts last call today I spoke again with BP Customer Care and have told them that fuel contamination IS to blame and that water plus god knows how much crap has been deposited in my car. I was told that the matter had already been raised with the garage concerned (and BPs local area manager was also aware of the situation), and a 'dip test' of the tank concerned was being arranged (anyone know what this is or who undertakes it?) The results of this test will be known tomorrow and I am to expect a call from the garage owner with further news.
I’m preparing for a call stating that 'all is fine with their fuel' and the onus is therefore on me to prove contamination/negligence or whatever. Whilst I do not hold a receipt, my transaction will be logged and BMW assist have details of my breakdown and the breakdown guy that picked us up also knows the exact location in relation to the filling station concerned and this is documented
Why am I posting then?
Well firstly because I’m wondering whether anyone here has ever come across such a situation and if so how was it resolved?
Also because we should all be aware that just because a garage sells the fuel of a multi-national oil giant that apparently doesn’t mean that oil giant takes responsibility.
And finally because I’m wondering whether anyone here has any suggestions as to what my next course of action should be should the garage owner be stupid enough to contest his responsibility. Trading Standards, Product Liability Insurers, Solicitors letter and ultimately (pardon the pun) a letter to whoever the hell owns BP might be in order (I’m sure they won’t want their good name plastered over local and possibly national newspapers…..)
Thanks for listening and I’ll keep you posted. In the meantime here’s a link to a picture of the bloody car concerned, hopefully you can share my pain
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j19
I bit of background for those that don’t know. I am the lucky owner of a superb Z4M Coupe, complete with Individual paintwork, extended leather and all the toys. The last car that will grace the S54 lump and a totally superb driving machine albeit with not much change from £50grand. The car is 4 weeks old, run in and has 1800 miles on the clock.
On Sunday evening I was returning from a trip to Snowdonia with my brother who had just run the marathon (mad bugger!). We pulled off the M54, planning to join the M6 toll to avoid the usual Sunday evening M6 traffic. I was just under ¼ full on fuel, but as we joined the A460 the welcoming lights of a BP fuel station came into view and as I only ever put either Shell’s VPower or BP Ultimate into my performance cars it made sense to fill up before hitting the motorway, thus ensuring a further 170 odd miles of uninterrupted travel home.
Bear with me, because the details might at some point be important, I don’t know.
My brother Chris had said he would pay for the fuel as I had been his chauffeur and supporter during his gruelling run. So I found the sole Ultimate pump, opened the fuel cap and Chris told me he would pay cash. The pump started clicking to indicate the tank was nearing full and we stopped at £38 on the nail. Chris asked me if I wanted a receipt and I said no. (Paying by cash and therefore not getting a receipt is extremely unusual for me.)
Fuel bill paid, we fired up the car and rejoined the single carriageway road. After only a few yards I noticed out of the corner of my eye the gear stick shuddering violently, this barely had time to register when I noticed the orange engine light come on, quickly followed by the EML light, then the car stuttered, stalled and came to an unceremonious halt. I was only just able to coast the car onto the side of the road, luckily into a farm entrance turning thus out of harms way as the impatient Sunday evening traffic thundered by.
Perplexed, I turned the key a few times...turned over fine, but couldn’t fire and sounded like a bag of nails or your granny spluttering on her 27th Capstan Full Strength of the day. One call later to BMW assist and I was assured rescue within the hour, taking the car to a destination of my choice (I chose my dealer Murketts, Huntingdon about 170 miles further south).
As my brother and I waited for the rescue truck to arrive we began analysing what had happened. Obviously we assumed the fuelling exercise was to blame and I began to my horror to consider whether I had inadvertently fuelled up with Ultimate diesel and not petrol (the branding is very similar). Deep down I knew this could not be the case, as it is impossible to fit the nozzle of a diesel pump into a modern petrol car. Notwithstanding this and eager to be certain, my brother ran back to the garage to check. He returned to confirm we had fuelled up with Ultimate 98 petrol and indeed our transaction was still showing on the pump. He also consulted the guy serving who also confirmed we had not made the most stupidest of mistakes.
Anyhow, the car has been at Murketts since Sunday evening and only today has the whole horror unfolded. I received a call initially on Tuesday to confirm that a sample had been taken from the bottom of the tank and early signs were that it was petrol, so further investigating was taking place to get a full diagnosis. Mid afternoon today a further call from Murketts to say that all other options had now been ruled out and the tank had been emptied and shown to consist of roughly 75% water! The dealership have confirmed to me that a replacement fuel filter and tank flush would solve the problem and all things being equal, I would get the car back tomorrow problem fixed, albeit I would be around £200 lighter thanks to their labour and a new fuel filter. They also stated that there should be no lasting damage to engine or cats.
Not that I don’t trust Murketts (they have looked after my CSL and Andy Pressland Service Manager is the one and only bloke I would ever trust to deal with my cars) but I needed to get a second opinion on whether water could in fact damage the engine. The key point here is of course that none of this will be covered by my warranty so you can understand my concerns. One call later (cheers SteveD) and my mind had been put at rest.
Unfortunately, 20 minutes later I received a further call from Murketts to say that on draining the fuel, sludge and debris has been found at the bottom of my tank and as such it was necessary to undertake further tests to assess the damage which could be considerable. Fuel lines, injectors etc etc could be damaged and ultimately I guess the engine itself may be affected. Andy had taken pictures with the aid of a mirror showing the brown discharge which I picked up from the bottom of the BP fuel station tank along with 40 litres of water. Judge for yourselves - (that brown stuff shown in the mirror has NO place in the fuel tank of a 4 week old car.....)
I have of course been in touch with BPs Customer Care line, I called initially yesterday to give them a heads up that there could be a problem. I was given a case number, but was told that the garage concerned was an independent and, as such, BP themselves could not be held liable for any claims unless it became apparent that they had delivered contaminated fuel. A letter has apparently been sent to me (not yet received) and more importantly to the garage in question noting the fact that there could be a claim for fuel contamination.
Following Murketts last call today I spoke again with BP Customer Care and have told them that fuel contamination IS to blame and that water plus god knows how much crap has been deposited in my car. I was told that the matter had already been raised with the garage concerned (and BPs local area manager was also aware of the situation), and a 'dip test' of the tank concerned was being arranged (anyone know what this is or who undertakes it?) The results of this test will be known tomorrow and I am to expect a call from the garage owner with further news.
I’m preparing for a call stating that 'all is fine with their fuel' and the onus is therefore on me to prove contamination/negligence or whatever. Whilst I do not hold a receipt, my transaction will be logged and BMW assist have details of my breakdown and the breakdown guy that picked us up also knows the exact location in relation to the filling station concerned and this is documented
Why am I posting then?
Well firstly because I’m wondering whether anyone here has ever come across such a situation and if so how was it resolved?
Also because we should all be aware that just because a garage sells the fuel of a multi-national oil giant that apparently doesn’t mean that oil giant takes responsibility.
And finally because I’m wondering whether anyone here has any suggestions as to what my next course of action should be should the garage owner be stupid enough to contest his responsibility. Trading Standards, Product Liability Insurers, Solicitors letter and ultimately (pardon the pun) a letter to whoever the hell owns BP might be in order (I’m sure they won’t want their good name plastered over local and possibly national newspapers…..)
Thanks for listening and I’ll keep you posted. In the meantime here’s a link to a picture of the bloody car concerned, hopefully you can share my pain
http://i80.photobucket.com/albums/j19
What he said - CCTV is all over forecourts to stop non-payers. And they should have records of your numberplate as well. Might be a good idea to get a statement from the chap on duty that night if at all possible.
Last thing BP want is a big media story saying that their very expensive fuel wrecks cars.
Last thing BP want is a big media story saying that their very expensive fuel wrecks cars.
Right!!
I ran a Gulf site for a number of years that doubled as my classic/performance workshop and the site with the highest fuel turnover in Europe at the time.
The rule of thumb is that EVERY petrol site is obliged to steam clean and, if necessary, detergent clean the storage tanks for fuel, be it petrol or derv, at least every six months. This is necessary to remove water and sludge that accumulates from condensation and the delivery tankers.
I have to say that in my experience the only one in Scotland at the time that did was my site; I know of no other who bothered.
I did it quite frankly because that is the way I am, but also because I was building V12 Jag and Ferrari blocks and simply could not take the slightest risk with fuel contamination.
What you need to do if it has not taken place as yet, is have an independent engineer at the tank test; utterly crucial.
The oil companies will lie in their teeth to avoid a payout: their reps are trained to do this, there is no integrity in this business!!
If you have missed the tank test you MUST get a solicitor involved who will pursue this station to the ends of the earth.
The fact that they are independent is totally irrelevant to the integrity or otherwise of the fuel: it was supplied by an oil company, any contamination CANNOT enter the tanks of it's own volition, it must have come from the tanker.
The long term effect on a new, tight engine running on water-contaminated petrol is I'm afraid not good. Your engine would almost certainly have suffered excessive detonation and subsequent piston damage which, although perhaps not immediately obvious, will shorten the piston and bore life considerably.
The cost of engine rectification on a modern unit such as a BMW is so draconian that you have to hold those responsible liable.
Good luck and if you need any more advice on this feel free to e-mail me.
I ran a Gulf site for a number of years that doubled as my classic/performance workshop and the site with the highest fuel turnover in Europe at the time.
The rule of thumb is that EVERY petrol site is obliged to steam clean and, if necessary, detergent clean the storage tanks for fuel, be it petrol or derv, at least every six months. This is necessary to remove water and sludge that accumulates from condensation and the delivery tankers.
I have to say that in my experience the only one in Scotland at the time that did was my site; I know of no other who bothered.
I did it quite frankly because that is the way I am, but also because I was building V12 Jag and Ferrari blocks and simply could not take the slightest risk with fuel contamination.
What you need to do if it has not taken place as yet, is have an independent engineer at the tank test; utterly crucial.
The oil companies will lie in their teeth to avoid a payout: their reps are trained to do this, there is no integrity in this business!!
If you have missed the tank test you MUST get a solicitor involved who will pursue this station to the ends of the earth.
The fact that they are independent is totally irrelevant to the integrity or otherwise of the fuel: it was supplied by an oil company, any contamination CANNOT enter the tanks of it's own volition, it must have come from the tanker.
The long term effect on a new, tight engine running on water-contaminated petrol is I'm afraid not good. Your engine would almost certainly have suffered excessive detonation and subsequent piston damage which, although perhaps not immediately obvious, will shorten the piston and bore life considerably.
The cost of engine rectification on a modern unit such as a BMW is so draconian that you have to hold those responsible liable.
Good luck and if you need any more advice on this feel free to e-mail me.
I think you will find it is more common than you might imagine.
A couple of weeks ago a mate was filling up at a Shell or BP (cant remember which) garage near Wokingham in Berkshire. A guy started kicking off at the attendant. He had been putting BP Ultimate equivalent in his sports car but it was diesel coming out of the ultimate nozzle.
Whilst my mate was there, an RAC man came storming in saying they had got 3 calls from other cars stranded down the road.
Expensive mistake for the garage as people who put Ultimate in tend to have nice cars.
A couple of weeks ago a mate was filling up at a Shell or BP (cant remember which) garage near Wokingham in Berkshire. A guy started kicking off at the attendant. He had been putting BP Ultimate equivalent in his sports car but it was diesel coming out of the ultimate nozzle.
Whilst my mate was there, an RAC man came storming in saying they had got 3 calls from other cars stranded down the road.
Expensive mistake for the garage as people who put Ultimate in tend to have nice cars.
gridgway said:
I thought that petrol engined cars were much more resilitient to water n stuff than diesel. If you get petrol in yer diesel car then that is very painful on the wallet!
No car likes water...it doesn't compress! But that is also why diesels pretty much die straight away.
A few years ago a friend of mine had a "liabilty" nightmare.
He read that it was important that the timing chain on his MK1 M3 was changed, if it were to snap or slip it would potentialy wreck the engine.
He went along to his local BMW dealership and paid them £800 to do the task. Collected the car, drove all of 1 mile down the road when the chain jumped of the sproketts and the engine was knackered.
It took him 3-4 years to get a payout from them. They settled out of court after dragging it out for the maximum amount of time.......
He read that it was important that the timing chain on his MK1 M3 was changed, if it were to snap or slip it would potentialy wreck the engine.
He went along to his local BMW dealership and paid them £800 to do the task. Collected the car, drove all of 1 mile down the road when the chain jumped of the sproketts and the engine was knackered.
It took him 3-4 years to get a payout from them. They settled out of court after dragging it out for the maximum amount of time.......
havoc said:
gridgway said:
I thought that petrol engined cars were much more resilitient to water n stuff than diesel. If you get petrol in yer diesel car then that is very painful on the wallet!
No car likes water...it doesn't compress! But that is also why diesels pretty much die straight away.
No liquids compress!!!!
(Physics teacher
)jith said:
The fact that they are independent is totally irrelevant to the integrity or otherwise of the fuel: it was supplied by an oil company, any contamination CANNOT enter the tanks of it's own volition, it must have come from the tanker.
Wouldn't be the first time that rainwater/surfacewater has found its way into a tank.
andmole said:
havoc said:
gridgway said:
I thought that petrol engined cars were much more resilitient to water n stuff than diesel. If you get petrol in yer diesel car then that is very painful on the wallet!
No car likes water...it doesn't compress! But that is also why diesels pretty much die straight away.
No liquids compress!!!!
(Physics teacher
)In the classroom maybe, but in engineering they do. Of course they do not compress at the same rate as gasses, but it does happen.
Forums | Speed, Plod & the Law | Top of Page | What's New | My Stuff