Penalty charge for parking
Discussion
I received a PCN from a warden slapped onto my car in High Wycombe for not displaying a valid ticket. On it, it says:
PCN said:
First seen at: 13:34 Issued at: 13:37
That meanss they issued a ticket within 3 minutes of seeing the contravention. Hm! I remember reading somewhere that they had to give you 5 minutes grace? Is this just some guideline that gets ignored or is it legislated somehow?
A lot of people think there's a 5 minute grace. I think the reason there are two times given on the ticket is that some parking places are time limited but don't have meters or tickets, so the meter maid notes the time first seen then comes back some time later and, if it's still there, issues the PCN.
vonhosen said:
There isn't a grace period in law.
Then what about allowing a certain amount of time for loading, where the restriction says no parking, but loading is allowed? It is quite possible to be away from the vehicle for a few minutes, during which time you should secure the vehicle of course, (nobody could argue with that), whilst you are loading or unloading. This could be the case if you are delivering/collecting to or from an office in a large block.
andmole said:
vonhosen said:
There isn't a grace period in law.
Then what about allowing a certain amount of time for loading, where the restriction says no parking, but loading is allowed? It is quite possible to be away from the vehicle for a few minutes, during which time you should secure the vehicle of course, (nobody could argue with that), whilst you are loading or unloading. This could be the case if you are delivering/collecting to or from an office in a large block.
It's up to the LAs how they instruct their PAs - e.g. in Westminster PAs are instructed to give 20 minutes casual observation to commercial vehicles (where loading/unloading is permitted) before ticketing. Private vehicles are a slight problem as PAs are instructed to apply an instant PCN to vehicles if they don't see immediate signs of loading/unloading.
However, they will cancel the ticket if you write in and send a copy of a delivery note or if you don't enclose a delivery note but sound like an annoying enough person to given them a continuing headache. Adjudicators have upheld the principle that you may have to enter a building in order to carry out the loading/unloading so LAs are pretty screwed if people claim loading/unloading.
High Wycombe just dismissed three wardens for abusing the grace period. Their hand-held machines force a grace period (they need to enter the reg and then some time later they can print the ticket), but a computer glitch meant that this wasn't strictly enforced and the wardens were able to get round it.
The grace period varies with the location -parking in a disabled bay has no grace period, for example.
The grace period varies with the location -parking in a disabled bay has no grace period, for example.
eccles said:
vonhosen said:
There isn't a grace period in law.
how would it work then if it was pay and display, and you had walked off to get the ticket....if there's a que, you could easily be gone for 5 mins.
Having the correct change as well?
If they don't allow you to pop to a shop for change then all meters / pay & display machines should accept notes because they're legal tender.
I looked into this when I got towed a few years ago.
The local authorities can make up anything they want.. but *DO* read the details.
The LA for where I was had the rules as: "Must give 6 mins before issuing ticket" and "must have a ticket for 15 minutes before removing car". Ie. there had to be 21 minutes of the car illegally parked before towing.
As I was gone 10 mins, I contested it. They asked me to prove, I couldn't but still went to court. Day before the case, they backed down and gave me the cash back.
So, read the details and don't be afraid to contest
PS. B*stards!
I was going away with my g/f for the weekend. Stopped outside the flat complex to go and get luggage. The road could have had parking bays all down it (about 1/4 mile), but instead had single yellows with only 10 bays. This road was about 4 car widths wide. You couldn't park inside the complex without a permit and without a car why would she have one? So stop for a few minutes of a road not obstructing anything, grab some bags and ... no car. The security guard said he saw it - 2 operators and a warden in the truck. Warden placed a ticket on it as the wardens were lifting it.
The local authorities can make up anything they want.. but *DO* read the details.
The LA for where I was had the rules as: "Must give 6 mins before issuing ticket" and "must have a ticket for 15 minutes before removing car". Ie. there had to be 21 minutes of the car illegally parked before towing.
As I was gone 10 mins, I contested it. They asked me to prove, I couldn't but still went to court. Day before the case, they backed down and gave me the cash back.
So, read the details and don't be afraid to contest
PS. B*stards!
I was going away with my g/f for the weekend. Stopped outside the flat complex to go and get luggage. The road could have had parking bays all down it (about 1/4 mile), but instead had single yellows with only 10 bays. This road was about 4 car widths wide. You couldn't park inside the complex without a permit and without a car why would she have one? So stop for a few minutes of a road not obstructing anything, grab some bags and ... no car. The security guard said he saw it - 2 operators and a warden in the truck. Warden placed a ticket on it as the wardens were lifting it. What about the driving instructor who used empty parking bays in Camden iirc to help teach his pupils to reverse park.
He had one pupil who was a bit slow, and had to have a few goes. As soon as pupil had sorted it, away they went for the rest of the lesson.
he got a ticket for double parking the evidence being a CCTV shot of the vehicle positioned alongside another just prior to the reverse part of the maneouvre.
He got the ticket cancelled eventually.
Civilian enforcement when the enforcer or his employer gains directly from the fine revenue has caused more problems than enough.
He had one pupil who was a bit slow, and had to have a few goes. As soon as pupil had sorted it, away they went for the rest of the lesson.
he got a ticket for double parking the evidence being a CCTV shot of the vehicle positioned alongside another just prior to the reverse part of the maneouvre.
He got the ticket cancelled eventually.
Civilian enforcement when the enforcer or his employer gains directly from the fine revenue has caused more problems than enough.
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