What's the offence?
Discussion
A sixteen year old uses fake ID to get in a pub. The bouncer spots it and hands it over to the police. What's the offence? No alcohol had been purchased by the youth in question and he was legally old enough to be in the pub but not to drink alcohol.
Has he committed an offence or is the offence going out with the intent to commit an offence?
The name on the ID card was his own, there was no address. The only incorrect detail was his DOB.
Forwarned is forearmed as they say!
Has he committed an offence or is the offence going out with the intent to commit an offence?
The name on the ID card was his own, there was no address. The only incorrect detail was his DOB.
Forwarned is forearmed as they say!
Disclaimer:
All the events pertaining to this question are merely hypothetical. All references to persons alive or dead are unintentional. However I really could do with knowing pretty pronto!
All the events pertaining to this question are merely hypothetical. All references to persons alive or dead are unintentional. However I really could do with knowing pretty pronto!
In Scotland we would consider a charge of fraud. (An attempt to commit a crime in Scotland is treated as the crime itself.)
The fraud is making a pretence in order to gain. In this case pretending to be older in order to obtain alcohol.
In the real world they would probably just be sent packing and told not to be so daft. Lets face in two minutes time some adult will buy them drink anyway.
The fraud is making a pretence in order to gain. In this case pretending to be older in order to obtain alcohol.
In the real world they would probably just be sent packing and told not to be so daft. Lets face in two minutes time some adult will buy them drink anyway.
Did he produce teh document to another & if so why ?
Uttering a forged instrument contrary to Sec 3 of the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981.
It is an offence for a person to use an instrument which is, and which he knows or believes to be, false, with the intention of inducing somebody to accept it as genuine, and by reason of so accepting it to do or not to do some act to his own or any other person's prejudice.
Uttering a forged instrument contrary to Sec 3 of the Forgery and Counterfeiting Act 1981.
It is an offence for a person to use an instrument which is, and which he knows or believes to be, false, with the intention of inducing somebody to accept it as genuine, and by reason of so accepting it to do or not to do some act to his own or any other person's prejudice.
BliarOut said:
mungo said:
Practical policing: Just tell him to bugger off
That would have been the correct reaction, along with a flea in his ear. Apparently 
aren't going to do anything. Weren't like it in my day etc.... Too right it wasn't, we just used to use each others driving licences
I thought you were asking what offence if any, not what action would BiB take in such circumstances.
vonhosen said:
BliarOut said:
mungo said:
Practical policing: Just tell him to bugger off
That would have been the correct reaction, along with a flea in his ear. Apparently aren't going to do anything. Weren't like it in my day etc.... Too right it wasn't, we just used to use each others driving licences
I thought you were asking what offence if any, not what action would BiB take in such circumstances.
decided to come down on him like a ton of bricks. Fortunately it all seems to have blown over. He's a lovely lad, but if ever anyone is going to get caught for anything you can guarantee it'll be the lad in question.
Fancy trying to use fake ID in a pub that was busted the previous weekend for serving under age drinkers. Kids eh
7db said:
Might be a more interesting one of aiding and abetting for whomever made the id -- particularly if they were well produced and making loads of them. Probably more worthy of Police attention.
Call his parents...have them deal with it.
I could just roll over in bed and have a word with his mum... And it would save on the cost of a phone call Call his parents...have them deal with it.
The offence of "Going Equipped" under The Fraud Act 2006?
see here: www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2006/ukpga_20060035_en.pdf
Attempted Deception within the Criminal Attempts Act 1981/Theft Act 1968?
see here: http://sixthformlaw.info/06_misc/stat
see here: www.lawteacher.net/Criminal/Property%20Offences/TA%201968.pdf
All possible food for thought?
see here: www.opsi.gov.uk/ACTS/acts2006/ukpga_20060035_en.pdf
Attempted Deception within the Criminal Attempts Act 1981/Theft Act 1968?
see here: http://sixthformlaw.info/06_misc/stat
see here: www.lawteacher.net/Criminal/Property%20Offences/TA%201968.pdf
All possible food for thought?
Edited by XMG5 on Monday 20th November 13:28
Threaten him that unless he hands over the fake id and asks for 157 (minimum) other offences to be taken into consideration he'll be getting a family imposed community service order.
120 hours looking after the old girl's down at the Gala Bingo.
Mind you, on the other hand, he might pull.....
120 hours looking after the old girl's down at the Gala Bingo.
Mind you, on the other hand, he might pull.....
virgil said:
Reminds me of years ago when we were 16 - mate walks up to doorman with a friend's driving licence...doorman asks his date of birth - he gives it but gets it wrong. Door monkey says OK and lets him in!
Hmm...
Hmm...
A mate of mine showed his "ID" in a pub when I was 15 or so. The barman asks his dob, checks it and hands it back, serves our beer, takes the money and comes back with the change before asking "So you're 28?" Mate says yes and we grab our beer and go and hide in a gloomy corner It turns out he'd pinched his older brother's driving licence
mechsympathy said:
virgil said:
Reminds me of years ago when we were 16 - mate walks up to doorman with a friend's driving licence...doorman asks his date of birth - he gives it but gets it wrong. Door monkey says OK and lets him in!
Hmm...
Hmm...
A mate of mine showed his "ID" in a pub when I was 15 or so. The barman asks his dob, checks it and hands it back, serves our beer, takes the money and comes back with the change before asking "So you're 28?" Mate says yes and we grab our beer and go and hide in a gloomy corner It turns out he'd pinched his older brother's driving licenceWhen we were kids a mate tried to get into a bar in Cardiff by presenting a donor card...
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