Roundabout accident

[supermono]

Following on from another thread recently, supposing I encounter one of these nut jobs who ambles around the circumference of the roundabout until they reach their exit.

Supposing I am about to pass them in the right lane on the exit they look like they're about to take but instead they recklessly turn across my path causing me to crash into them.

Which way is the claim going?

SM

[deva link]

Against you.

Treat 2 lane roundabouts as if they're a straightened out bits of 2 lane road, with lots of left turns. You wouldn't turn left from the right hand lane in those circumstances, would you? OK, we all do it, but it's dicey at best.

[7db]

Roundabouts are nearly never clear-cut for claims. Best to avoid everyone...

[Fort Jefferson]

supermono said:

Following on from another thread recently, supposing I encounter one of these nut jobs who ambles around the circumference of the roundabout until they reach their exit.

Supposing I am about to pass them in the right lane on the exit they look like they're about to take but instead they recklessly turn across my path causing me to crash into them.

Which way is the claim going?

SM

You would be recklessly turning across their path.

[justinp1]

deva link said:

Against you.

Treat 2 lane roundabouts as if they're a straightened out bits of 2 lane road, with lots of left turns. You wouldn't turn left from the right hand lane in those circumstances, would you? OK, we all do it, but it's dicey at best.

I agree that this is good practical advice, and what I always do, however I think that this is a particular issue hypothetical or otherwise, to do with an insurance claim.

As someone has already pointed out, these cases are often difficult to sort out, and with insurance companies sometimes making money out of the fact that they are processing a claim, they work on the seemingly Newtonian law of Roundabout =50/50

However, the Highway Code is quite different and quite specific in that if you are not taking the first or last exit, you must approach a roundabout in an appropriate lane and you must continue in this lane until you exit the roundabout. For the first exit is is specific that you take the left lane, if you are turning right and this is the last exit, you take the right lane.

As long as the person turning off the roundabout has followed the highway code, and the other person who would be coming from the left has not, for example using the left lane to turn right, then the case should be clear cut - despite the protestations of the insurance company that it should be 50/50. Of course that way they have to do zero work, their call centre meets its target, both insurance companies take their excesses and both drivers lose no claims.

The relevant case law for the above situation is Grace v Tanner. If someone has entered the roundabout on the wrong lane and changes their course from what the Highway Code allows, as long as the other driver has followed the Code correctly, if this case law is followed the driver in the wrong lane should lose.

The only get out clause, is very specific and would be if the signage is misleading or ambiguous and the driver does not know the area.

Edited by justinp1 on Monday 20th November 12:36

Edited by justinp1 on Monday 20th November 12:37

[havoc]

Not STRICTLY true, as long as you could prove they entered the roundabout on the wrong lane.

Almost exactly this happened to my wife - very-large 5-exit (inc the one you're coming from) roundabout in Coventry centre, 2 lanes joining it from the Uni, wife in RH lane wanting 3rd exit straight-on (D-carriageway). Students in Prelude in LH lane.

Wife indicates and exits r'bout, is hit squarely on near-side by idiots (sorry, students) who actually wanted the last exit. Unfortunately no witnesses, but insurance were initially quite positive. of course, the students changed their story to suit, backed each other up (despite the passenger living just off the 4th exit road!).

Went 50-50.


Rule-of-thumb is if there's no witnesses, it's 50-50. if there are witnesses, then in your situation it would depend which exit you were taking and whether you could safely justify being in RH lane. Even then no guarantee.

Best bet is do a lifesaver before starting to exit r-bout.

[elwe]

In most cases it very much depends on the markings on a roundabout. Anytime you are going to cross a dotted white line you must check it is clear for you to do so.

Therefore if the roundabout is two lane and has a dotted circle all the way round it you would have crossed the dotted line without checking it was OK and be clearly at fault.

If however the rounabout has dotted linesmarking flows onto and off of the roundabout and the car to the left of you has crossed one to avoid turning off they are clearly at fault.

If there are no marking then it is a free for all and you have to follow the highway code as best you can, though it could be argued that despit the width of the road there is only one lane on the roundabout and so you shouldn't have been alongside (or they shouldn;t have been undertaking you. If there are two lanes approaching the roundabout then the left lane should be left turn only as per a roundabout that is only wide anough for one car but has two lanes approaching.

[elwe]

havoc said:

Almost exactly this happened to my wife - very-large 5-exit (inc the one you're coming from) roundabout in Coventry centre, 2 lanes joining it from the Uni, wife in RH lane wanting 3rd exit straight-on (D-carriageway). Students in Prelude in LH lane.

Wife indicates and exits r'bout, is hit squarely on near-side by idiots (sorry, students) who actually wanted the last exit. Unfortunately no witnesses, but insurance were initially quite positive. of course, the students changed their story to suit, backed each other up (despite the passenger living just off the 4th exit road!).

In Basingstoke where I did my driving test there is an 8 exit roundabout. I was taught to use the LH lane for the first two exits and the RH for all the others. I was taught that from the RH lane you should move to the LH lane as you pass the exit 2 before you the one you want and to indicate left as you pass the exit before the one you are going to turn off on. This roundabout has a dotted line right the way round it making it two lanes all the way round. A dotted line means make sure its safe before you cross and therefore on this roundabout I was taught always to make sure you check before moving from RH lane to LH lane, even if the traffic in the LH lane should have just exited and even if it was indicating left before the turn off. The onus is on you to check they followed through and did turn off, the highway code says you should wait for someone to show they are actually going to turn when they are indicating, BEFORE you cross their path. This is just in case they have left the indicator on by accident or it is malfunctioning, or they change their mind at the last minute.

[7db]

Point of impact also worth noting. If you get in front of him and he hits you up the chuff, its a little different from you driving into his rear quarter, or a good honest-to-god sideswipe.

It's one thing to be in the right, it is, of course, a completely different thing to prove it.

Stop, get witnesses, then tend to the dying, injured and fires...

[colonel_smith]

I was hit by someone trying to get off a roundabout from the righthand lane..Only 2 cars on the roundabout and she failed to see me even though I was side by side at the set of lets just 10 yards back down the road..She at first admitted she was wrong but suprise suprise that changed to it was my fault...Went to court and won but it took over a year and that was with a witness in my car and the roundabout having lane markers on which proved I was in the correct lane...